[Koha] Fwd: FC: More on Ad Council ads, librarians, and anarchist Chuck0
Simon Blake
simon at katipo.co.nz
Sat Aug 10 22:14:58 NZST 2002
Hi folks - a post forwarded from politech, which I thought was
interesting given the discussion a few weeks back about not storing
reading and browsing user records. Seems to me that if you are an
American librarian that you might not want your library system to store
this kind of info - better to not store the info at all, than than to
hand info over to the feds (Live free or die? Moi? :-). It would be cool
to have a "null logging" mode in Koha where history data is kept in an
anonymised format useful for statistical analysis, without implicating
individuals.
Course, this may all be already underway, what would I know :-)
Cheers
Si
----- Forwarded message from Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com> -----
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 10:15:41 -0400
To: politech at politechbot.com
From: Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com>
Subject: FC: More on Ad Council ads, librarians, and anarchist Chuck0
Previous Politech message:
http://www.politechbot.com/p-03863.html
---
Subject: RE: Ad Council creates pro-liberty advertisements (very good)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 08:51:33 -0500
From: "Connie Jo Ozinga" <cjo at elkhart.lib.in.us>
To: <declan at well.com>
Those of us in the library community find the pro-liberty ad in which the
young man is approached by unidentified security types after asking for
particular library book interesting, particularly in light of the fact that
the Patriot's Act allows the FBI to access any library records on demand
(books checked out, computer sites visited...), AND forbids library
employees from telling anyone that such information has been provided in
response to the demands.
I find this far more chilling that the unlikely future projected in the ad.
???`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`???
Connie Jo Ozinga, Library Director
Elkhart Public Library Elkhart, Indiana
???`?????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??,????`????,??
---
From: [deleted]
To: "'declan at well.com'" <declan at well.com>
Subject: RE: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads:
"Incredibly hypocritic al!"
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:46:29 -0400
The ads (most of them) are excellent.
Someone tell Chuck that the point is to persuade people that it is a bad
thing to have feds snoop in libraries, arrest people for the wrong reading
material, and generally suppress speech. Then maybe it will be easier to
stop existing abuses.
---
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 12:38:27 -0400
From: "Paul Levy" <PLEVY at citizen.org>
To: <politech at politechbot.com>, <chuck at tao.ca>, <declan at well.com>
Subject: "Incredibly hypocritical!"
Why consider them hypocritical? Why not think of them as timely warnings!
Paul Alan Levy
Public Citizen Litigation Group
1600 - 20th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009
(202) 588-1000
http://www.citizen.org/litigation/litigation.html
---
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:44:31 -0500
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
hypocritical!"
From: Aaron Swartz <me at aaronsw.com>
To: chuck at tao.ca, declan at well.com
On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>These PSAs are really wacked out. They are supposed to be fictional
>depictions of life in a country other than the U.S., but they are
>incredibly hypocritical!
I thought the point was they were supposed to be depicting what the US was
turning into. The country sure looked like the US to me... and "What if
America wasn't America?"
--
Aaron Swartz [http://www.aaronsw.com] I am large, I contain multitudes.
---
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
hypocritical!" (CONFIDENTIAL)
From: Creede Lambard
To: declan at well.com
Date: 08 Aug 2002 10:56:18 -0700
(If you decide to print this please don't use my email address. Thank
you.)
Declan, I'm sure I'm not the first person to point out that perhaps
Chuck0 has missed the point of the Ad Council campaign. It looked to me
like the ads were painting a picture of what life could be like in the
United States for the average citizen if some of the laws Congress is
now considering pass.
He does have a point that this happens already with certain reading
materials. However, the problem is more widespread than suburban youth
reading anarchist samizdat as they wait to board a plane. Other
literature seems to also be grounds for arrest, or at least suspicion,
in this day and age. The Koran comes immediately to mind.
I interpreted these ads as an attempt to make Joe and Jane Average
American think of what might happen if we really do lock down this
country. If the make a few people reconsider those "incredibly
hypocritical" views Chuck0 perceives, perhaps they're worth the effort.
---
From: schew at interzone.com (Steve Chew)
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
To: declan at well.com
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 13:56:25 -0400 (EDT)
I have to wonder whether Chuck0 saw a different version of the ads.
I saw the "Library" one the other day on TV and watched it again on the
Ad Council site (http://www.adcouncil.org/campaigns/campaign_for_freedom/).
It was completely obvious that all of the ads were about the U.S.,
and what could happen if people do not, as the ad said, cherish freedom
and protect it. The ads were not "fictional depictions of life in a country
other than the U.S." While Chuck0 has a point that these things have been
happening to a limited extent already that does not detract from the value
of an ad which points out these problems. If people take these ads to
heart then they will begin to see when the government acts the opposite
way.
Personally, I found the "Library" ad to be chilling and it may be
effective enough to make a few people think. I hope they make more.
Steve
---
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:41:41 -0400
From: Nick Bretagna <onemug at gdn.net>
Reply-To: afn41391 at afn.org
To: chuck at tao.ca
CC: declan at well.com
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
hypocritical!"
Declan McCullagh wrote:
>Chuck is a reasonably prominent anarchist in the Washington DC area:
>http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=chuck0
>
>Previous Politech message:
>http://www.politechbot.com/p-03859.html
>
OK, is the Ad Council a government body? It appeared to me that it was
privately funded. The complaints Chuck has appear to be against the
government, and I fully concur, they are good ones. ...But unless the Ad
Council is a government body, this stuff is hardly hypocritical. I'm sure
the government has some input into these things, yeah, but by all signs,
they aren't a government agency.
These ads, if anything, might at least get people to thinking about those
things, something the sheeple have gotten quite complacent about in the
last 20+ years.
Whereas it used to be unthinkable that Soviet-style informants would be
suggested, we now have TIPS, and it's being advocated by the Teamsters, no
less.
Children are turning in their parents for drug use, your bank accounts are
being routinely monitored, and you can have any and all your property
seized if they have any evidence at all of association with the production
and distribution of drugs or just about anything "they" don't like.
I expect pretty soon three parking tickets will constitute racketeering
under the RICO statutes...
... Oh, and, did I mention that "Your Identity Papers, Please?" is
threatening to become an American standard?
All this is because of sheeplike acquiescence to government intrusions. I
seriously doubt if these ads will ever be seen by most people -- certainly
they will have far less prominance than the bullshit "Earthshare" ones that
AC runs... but I certainly laud ANYTHING that makes even a few of the sheep
pull their noses out of the feedbags and go, "HEY! That's baaaaaaaad...!".
...and no, I don't belong to any militias, nor do I own any guns. You don't
have to be a froth-at-the-mouth nutball to see undesirable trends,
especially not ones as far advanced as these.
:-/
"There is no week, nor day, nor hour, when tyranny may not enter upon this
country, if the people lose their supreme confidence in themselves - and
lose their roughness and spirit of defiance."
- Walt Whitman -
--
------- --------- ------- -------- ------- ------- -------
Nicholas Bretagna II
mailto:afn41391 at afn.org
---
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 14:53:25 -0400
From: Chuck Munson <chuck at tao.ca>
To: Aaron Swartz <me at aaronsw.com>
Cc: declan at well.com
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
hypocritical!"
Aaron Swartz wrote:
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2002, at 11:05 AM, Declan McCullagh wrote:
> > These PSAs are really wacked out. They are supposed to be fictional
> > depictions of life in a country other than the U.S., but they are
> > incredibly hypocritical!
>
> I thought the point was they were supposed to be depicting what the US
> was turning into. The country sure looked like the US to me... and
> "What if America wasn't America?"
Well, I'm kind of wondering that myself. Are these PSAs a warning about
Ashcroft's America?
<< Chuck0 >>
Personal homepage ->
http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/index.html
Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/
Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/
Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/
Anarchy: AJODA -> http://www.anarchymag.org/
MutualAid.org -> http://www.mutualaid.org/
Factsheet 5 -> http://www.factsheet5.org/
AIM: AgentHelloKitty
---
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 17:42:33 -0400
From: Chuck Munson <chuck at tao.ca>
Cc: Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com>
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
hypocritical!"
>
>
> I think they're being subversive -- get your digs in at Ashcroft/PATRIOT
> -- not hypocritical.
>
Yes, after exchanging several emails today with other folks, I'm starting
to see this.
I'll have to watch the other PSAs.
<< Chuck0 >>
Personal homepage ->
http://flag.blackened.net/chuck0/home/index.html
Infoshop.org -> http://www.infoshop.org/
Alternative Press Review -> http://www.altpr.org/
Practical Anarchy Online -> http://www.practicalanarchy.org/
Anarchy: AJODA -> http://www.anarchymag.org/
MutualAid.org -> http://www.mutualaid.org/
Factsheet 5 -> http://www.factsheet5.org/
AIM: AgentHelloKitty
----
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 10:09:10 -0700
From: David Alban <extasia at mindspring.com>
To: Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com>
Subject: Re: FC: Anarchist "Chuck0" on pro-liberty ads: "Incredibly
hypocritical!"
At 2002/08/08/12:05 -0400 Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com> wrote:
> Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 11:51:07 -0400
> From: Chuck Munson <chuck at tao.ca>
> Subject: Ad Council creates pro-liberty advertisements (very good)
> For example, the "Library" PSA shows a young guy asking for a book from a
> librarian, who informs him that it is no longer available and then asks
> him why he wants to read it. They pan the library and all these government
> agents pop out of hiding.
They say truth is stranger than fiction...
On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 01:16:29 -0400, Declan sent to politech the
following URL:
http://www.citypaper.net/articles/101801/news.godfrey.shtml
about a young man pulled out of a line in an airport and denied
permission to board his flight because of a book he was reading.
On the cover of the book, Hayduke Lives! by Edward Abbey, is an
illustration of a mans hand holding several sticks of dynamite. The 1991
novel is about a radical environmentalist, George Washington Hayduke
III, who blows up bridges, burns tractors and sabotages other projects
he believes are destroying the beautiful Southwest landscape.
"For the first time, it occurred to me the book may be a problem,"
Godfrey [the young man in the airport line] recalls.
He proceeded through the security checkpoint and sat down to read near
his boarding gate. About 10 minutes had passed when a National Guardsman
approached Godfrey.
"He told me to step aside," Godfrey says. "Then he took my book and
asked me why I was reading it."
Within minutes, Godfrey says, Philadelphia Police officers, Pennsylvania
State Troopers and airport security officials joined the National
Guardsman. About 10 to 12 people examined the novel for 45 minutes,
scratching out notes the entire time. They also questioned Godfrey about
the purpose of his trip to Phoenix.
David
--
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
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Simon Blake simon at katipo.co.nz
Katipo Communications +64 21 402 004
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