[Koha] [ByWater Partners] [Koha North America] Your suggestions for a new name of Koha NA

Wed Dec 23 07:03:14 NZDT 2015

When I travel to Asia where language barriers become more of an issue, and I inevitably get asked, “Where are you from?” I often try to respond “correctly” by saying US or USA or some variant, but I will continue to get a blank stare until I speak the word “America,” and then they understand. For a lot of us, we like to think of the Americas as two continents, but for a large part of the world the denotation for America is the US.

But I digress.

I really appreciate the link from Mr Davis (http://koha-na.org/index.php/Minutes2015-12-09 section “Is Koha for U.S. users only or for everyone in North America?”). While this helps the context, somewhat, it still does not really elucidate the supposition behind “the problem” and “hot water” as I’ve seen used to refer to the basis for this decision. In particular, item 3 of the meeting notes mentions that holding an annual meeting outside the US would hurt the organization. Is there evidence of this, or is this a perception? The note goes on to say certain employers would prohibit employees from traveling to another country. Do you really mean prohibit? If I worked with one of these organizations and offered to pay my own way, even do this on my own time, to travel abroad to a Koha meeting, they would still stand in my way? I’m guessing what was meant was cost-prohibitive (for the organization to pay for it). Well, guess what? Budgets shifted this year at my organization and I cannot travel next spring to Los Angeles—uh, that’s in the US, too.

Let’s use precise language if it’s going to be the determiner for big decisions that result in moving sites, redirecting URLs, maybe 404s, etc. I agree with the sentiment expressed by Mr Brannon and Ms. Rogers regarding wasting time in coming up with a name.

—wade

From: <partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com>> on behalf of Lee Jamison <ldjamison at maryu.marywood.edu<mailto:ldjamison at maryu.marywood.edu>>
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 10:59 AM
To: "BRANNON, CHRISTOPHER" <CBRANNON at cdalibrary.org<mailto:CBRANNON at cdalibrary.org>>
Cc: Francis Devadason <Francis.Devadason at doc.ks.gov<mailto:Francis.Devadason at doc.ks.gov>>, partners <partners at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:partners at bywatersolutions.com>>, KohaNA <kohana at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:kohana at bywatersolutions.com>>, Koha <koha at lists.katipo.co.nz<mailto:koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>>
Subject: Re: [ByWater Partners] [Koha North America] Your suggestions for a new name of Koha NA

I just went back to check the correct translation, and in Māori, Merika or Amerika both translate to mean the USA. Their word for North America is Amerika Te Tai Tokerau so there appears to be a clear distinction between the two, though I do acknowledge you make an excellent point Christopher!

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 11:18 AM, BRANNON, CHRISTOPHER <CBRANNON at cdalibrary.org<mailto:CBRANNON at cdalibrary.org>> wrote:
Some would argue that “America” is more vague than “North America”, and would make the problem bigger.

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From:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com> [mailto:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com>] On Behalf Of Lee Jamison
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2015 8:02 AM
To: Christopher Davis
Cc: Koha; Francis Devadason; partners; KohaNA
Subject: Re: [ByWater Partners] [Koha North America] Your suggestions for a new name of Koha NA

Hello everyone (I'm representing a newly-partnered institution),

I've been reading the dialog between everyone and it made me ask myself "Why not bring the name back to Koha's original Māori roots?"

So I thought of KohaMerica (could perhaps even be called KM for short) as Merica is the Māori word for America.

It seems to roll off the tongue while still being unique and easy to identify.
On Dec 21, 2015 5:47 PM, "Christopher Davis" <cgdavis at uintah.utah.gov<mailto:cgdavis at uintah.utah.gov>> wrote:
Wade, et al,

The Koha NA officers are please to see to much discussion of this
topic on the listservs. If you want to learn the context of why Koha
NA is changing its name, please visit
<koha-na.org/index.php/Minutes2015-12-09<http://koha-na.org/index.php/Minutes2015-12-09>>. In short, Koha NA's
original scope was the U.S. and we do not want our name to indicate
North America when we are not able to physically meet outside of the
U.S.

FYI: Our monthly meetings (you're all invited to our next meeting: Jan
13, 2016) are held online and so international boarders typically do
not pose any obstacle like they do when meeting face-to-face.

Merry Christmas,

Christopher Davis
Secretary, Koha NA

On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Stebbings, Wade
<Wade.Stebbings at walkerart.org<mailto:Wade.Stebbings at walkerart.org>> wrote:
> I agree, the frequency of face-to-face meetings can be reduced if it’s too
> expensive. However, there is nothing like the serendipity offered by a
> face-to-face meeting or conference. And maybe that luxury is something
> done infrequently, or maybe with regional chapters.
>
> But I go back to what I said previously: what problem are we trying to
> solve?
>
> If it’s about cost, then this new line of discussion has value.
>
> —wade
>
> On 12/21/15, 11:37 AM, "Francis Devadason" <Francis.Devadason at doc.ks.gov<mailto:Francis.Devadason at doc.ks.gov>>
> wrote:
>
>>Why do we have to travel? We can have online conferencing.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Koha [mailto:koha-bounces at lists.katipo.co.nz<mailto:koha-bounces at lists.katipo.co.nz>] On Behalf Of
>>Stebbings, Wade
>>Sent: Monday, December 21, 2015 10:14 AM
>>To: Owen Leonard; Koha
>>Cc: KohaNA; partners
>>Subject: Re: [Koha] [ByWater Partners] [Koha North America] Your
>>suggestions for a new name of Koha NA
>>
>>Owen,
>>
>>Christopher said ³for many, travel outside of the U.S. Is prohibited,²
>>which sounds more like travel constraints due to policy reasons, not due
>>to cost. If we¹re really talking about cost-optimization, then the focus
>>on contiguous-US is misplaced: cost has more to do with location than
>>distance, some locations are simply much higher cost to stay. For
>>example, my recent conference trip to Chicago (c. 400 miles), flying and
>>driving were close to the same cost, but the cost of accommodations by
>>far exceeded everything else. Chicago is expensive, New York is
>>expensive, San Francisco is expensive, Winnipeg is not. It has nothing to
>>do with political boundaries. The majority of Canadian population lives
>>relatively close to the Canadian-US border, Edmonton being the most
>>egregious outlier.
>>
>>Agreed, we need to step back and rethink, What problem are we trying to
>>solve? ŒHot water¹ doesn¹t say much.
>>
>>If that answer drives the shape and expanse of the organization, or
>>chapter, then fine. But not until that is decided do we name something.
>>It is now obvious to me the exercise of naming something is way too
>>premature.
>>
>>‹wade
>>
>>On 12/21/15, 8:02 AM, "partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com> on behalf of
>>Owen Leonard" <partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com<mailto:partners-bounces at bywatersolutions.com> on behalf of
>>oleonard at myacpl.org<mailto:oleonard at myacpl.org>> wrote:
>>
>>>I think everyone needs to pause and reflect on what the goal of this
>>>process is, because we seem to be continuing to dig this hole deeper
>>>instead of climbing out.
>>>
>>>> all face-to-face meetings will be
>>>> held within the contiguous U.S. to ensure that U.S. Koha users have a
>>>> better chance to attend them (for many, travel outside of the U.S. is
>>>> prohibited).
>>>
>>>The goal of this process is to define the terms of a Koha user group
>>>which meets within the contiguous United States. This narrow definition
>>>is of the location of the meetings, not of those who are welcome in the
>>>group.
>>>
>>>This rule about meeting locations is not made in order to be
>>>exclusionary, but in order to create more opportunities for U.S.
>>>members to participate. The United States is big, travel is expensive,
>>>and libraries don't like to spend money.
>>>
>>>I would encourage everyone to make suggestions which don't have "North
>>>America" or "America" as a basis. Both terms include areas which are
>>>outside the contiguous United States and thus explicitly excluded.
>>>Take a look at the maps:
>>>
>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America
>>>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas
>>>
>>>Terms like "North America" and "America" are WHY we're hot water in the
>>>first place.
>>>
>>> -- Owen
>>>
>>>--
>>>Web Developer
>>>Athens County Public Libraries
>>>http://www.myacpl.org
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Partners mailing list
>>>Partners at lists.bywatersolutions.com<mailto:Partners at lists.bywatersolutions.com>
>>>http://lists.bywatersolutions.com/mailman/listinfo/partners
>>
>>_______________________________________________
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>
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--
Lee Jamison
Field Support Technician
Verizon Wireless SPOC
Marywood University
570-961-4586
ldjamison at marywood.edu<mailto:ldjamison at marywood.edu>