[Koha] tagging in koha
Caitlin McGurk
mcgurk at cartoonstudies.org
Thu May 26 05:01:01 NZST 2011
As an aside, I'd like to point out that Koha libraries using LibraryThing
for Libraries (the function for which is built into Koha already in
GlobalSystemPreferences>EnhancedContent) seems to be the best current
solution for tagging issues.
See the example below:
http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=63777
The "tag browser" basically works as a separate search engine. Would be
great if Koha had this separate from LTFL (which costs money), but it's a
workable solution for now.
CM
On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, LAURENT Henri-Damien <
henridamien.laurent at biblibre.com> wrote:
> Le 25/05/2011 14:38, Ian Walls a écrit :
> > The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that
> > they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds
> > it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to
> > inject the tags.
> >
> > So, our options are:
> >
> > 1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea
> > for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate
> > the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record)
> >
> > 2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them
> > separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields.
> > Complicated, but flexible.
> >
> > 3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and
> > if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra.
>
> Hi
> hopping into the thread.
>
> Could also be done tweaking the rebuild_zebra which would take some
> mysql information and put them into a marcrecord with hardcoded
> tags/subfields (090 091 990 ? For Internal Koha usage... Some quite
> important mysql data such as last modified, first created, and so on
> could also be added that way.) Maybe a kind of plugin for rebuild_zebra.
>
> But I would have rather more librarians to talk about that issue.
> Some librarians will want to index those tags, others won't because it
> will add some noise and users donot add "correct and valid" tags.
> Problem would to add to zebraqueue as soon as a tag is added or validated.
>
>
> To adress Lori's question, about the SOPAC2 management of tags, this
> would not be ideal i think.
> Insurge would be yet another indexing engine with another technology
> (sphynx and mysql). And changing for or adding Insurge would not change
> the core problems. It is not the indexing engine... It is the way things
> are done, the C4::Search.pm and the way we index things.
>
> I would have rather index the stuff as a tag index into a zebra/whatever
> koha search engine. Working on Solr integration, we pondered on the
> question. And decided Not to add A plugin to index tags at the moment...
> The more you add indexes, the more you add overhead at indexing time. We
> have to work on a solution to index a record as fast as lightning... But
> run short of time. And the MARCXML representation is not the "fastest to
> parse" one (This could be addressed... But would any library be
> interested in funding that idea ? koha should work as fast as it was
> in... 2.2... And it is internal work... So, who cares ?). MarcXML choice
> may have been clever at one point... But what we did with it was not (I
> mean the C4::XSLT.pm and the parsing of stylesheet could be embedded in
> a more clever way, the rebuild_zebra in iso2709 only at first...). And
> the counterpart is everyday heavier and heavier.
>
> But still, it would have to index the record when a tag is added...
> Which is not ideal. Neither is the present day situation... But at
> least, it is not adding some overhead indexing with tags management or
> noise in the results.
>
> But what data is indexed and how it is indexed should be a global
> concern (For instance, acquisitions information, user interactions, and
> claims may all be indexed into the search engine) ? that would raise
> issues for indexing... acquisition elements, privacy, permissions (Do
> patrons need to be able to search with acquisition data ?) and so on...
> In my humble opinion, that would need to be discussed on a wider scale
> than just a company or a dev group, or even a users group.... And not
> only librarians, but all the users, that also mean patrons. patrons'
> opinion should be important. There is a workgroup need there. Not on a
> local base (which would already be nice), but on a widescale base, with
> use cases. The whole koha users may have to speak their minds about what
> THEY want. And when ppl agree on what they want to see, they could go
> through RFP, RFI, CCTP, whatever. And speaking only english could raise
> some artificial barriers (indian libraries, french, german users,
> pakistanese, spanish users).
>
> Maybe I am too much demanding, you may think I am just whinning or idle
> thinking. But there are groups that gathered and worked and designed
> stuff... Why should Koha users around the world not be able to do so ?
>
> My 2 cents.
> --
> Henri-Damien LAURENT
>
> >
> > I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha;
> > they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible.
> >
> >
> > -Ian
> >
> > 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson at rhcl.org <mailto:glawson at rhcl.org>>
> >
> > When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and
> > approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from
> > the staff interface.
> >
> > That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there
> > is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to
> > have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an
> > otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but
> > <gregariously> misspelled, tags.
> >
> > If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags
> > listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's
> > not really like a search term.
> >
> > Greg
> > ================
> >
> >
> > On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
> >> Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I
> >> equate tags with keywords and would think they should be
> >> searchable one in the same.
> >>
> >> Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and
> >> looking at your own list?
> >> Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the
> >> LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best
> >> way to go, though it does have a price.
> >>
> >> CM
> >>
> >> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson at rhcl.org <mailto:glawson at rhcl.org>>
> >>
> >> Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced
> search?
> >>
> >> Greg
> >> -----------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
> >>> We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding
> >>> improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily
> >>> welcome participative assistance in this regard with any
> >>> interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it
> >>> with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about
> >>> enhancements, or via direct email.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Greg
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
> >>>> Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you
> >>>> still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems
> >>>> silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at
> >>>> all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the
> >>>> feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should*
> >>>> be there to make searching more robust.
> >>>>
> >>>> Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries
> >>>> function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix
> >>>> this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be
> >>>> curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the
> >>>> tags in a catalog search.
> >>>>
> >>>> Caitlin M
> >>>>
> >>>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson at rhcl.org <mailto:glawson at rhcl.org
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't think you can tag from the staff interface.
> >>>> We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so
> >>>> maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, you clearly have a separate problem with
> >>>> tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You
> >>>> have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the
> >>>> OPAC configuration there are several settings, like
> >>>> tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
> >>>>
> >>>> Of interest, however, I now see that the text for
> >>>> tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to
> >>>> tag, so I don't know what's with that.
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> Greg Lawson
> >>>> Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
> >>>> 1912 N. Belt Highway
> >>>> St. Joseph, MO 64506
> >>>> 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----------------------------
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
> >>>>> Hey all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through
> >>>>> the administrative end? I can't find a section for it,
> >>>>> other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags
> >>>>> to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the
> >>>>> item does not appear when a search is done for that tag
> >>>>> after.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Suggestions?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> CM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Caitlin McGurk
> >>>>> /Librarian
> >>>>> The Schulz Library
> >>>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies
> >>>>> <http://www.cartoonstudies.org>
> >>>>> McGurk at cartoonstudies.org
> >>>>> <mailto:McGurk at cartoonstudies.org>/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> >>>>> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
> >>>>> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> >>>> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
> >>>> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Caitlin McGurk
> >>>> /Librarian
> >>>> The Schulz Library
> >>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org
> >
> >>>> McGurk at cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk at cartoonstudies.org>/
> >>>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> >> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
> >> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Caitlin McGurk
> >> /Librarian
> >> The Schulz Library
> >> The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org>
> >> McGurk at cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk at cartoonstudies.org>/
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Greg Lawson
> > Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
> > 1912 N. Belt Highway
> > St. Joseph, MO 64506
> > 816-232-5479 x2303
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> > Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
> > http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ian Walls
> > Lead Development Specialist
> > ByWater Solutions
> > ALA Booth 732
> > Phone # (888) 900-8944
> > http://bywatersolutions.com
> > ian.walls at bywatersolutions.com <mailto:ian.walls at bywatersolutions.com>
> > Twitter: @sekjal
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> > Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz
> > http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz
> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
--
Caitlin McGurk
*Librarian
The Schulz Library
The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org>
McGurk at cartoonstudies.org*
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