As an aside, I'd like to point out that Koha libraries using LibraryThing for Libraries (the function for which is built into Koha already in GlobalSystemPreferences>EnhancedContent) seems to be the best current solution for tagging issues. <br>
<br>See the example below:<br><a href="http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=63777">http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=63777</a><br><br>The "tag browser" basically works as a separate search engine. Would be great if Koha had this separate from LTFL (which costs money), but it's a workable solution for now.<br>
<br>CM<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, LAURENT Henri-Damien <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:henridamien.laurent@biblibre.com">henridamien.laurent@biblibre.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Le 25/05/2011 14:38, Ian Walls a écrit :<br>
<div class="im">> The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that<br>
> they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds<br>
> it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to<br>
> inject the tags.<br>
><br>
> So, our options are:<br>
><br>
> 1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea<br>
> for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate<br>
> the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record)<br>
><br>
> 2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them<br>
> separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields.<br>
> Complicated, but flexible.<br>
><br>
> 3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and<br>
> if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra.<br>
<br>
</div>Hi<br>
hopping into the thread.<br>
<br>
Could also be done tweaking the rebuild_zebra which would take some<br>
mysql information and put them into a marcrecord with hardcoded<br>
tags/subfields (090 091 990 ? For Internal Koha usage... Some quite<br>
important mysql data such as last modified, first created, and so on<br>
could also be added that way.) Maybe a kind of plugin for rebuild_zebra.<br>
<br>
But I would have rather more librarians to talk about that issue.<br>
Some librarians will want to index those tags, others won't because it<br>
will add some noise and users donot add "correct and valid" tags.<br>
Problem would to add to zebraqueue as soon as a tag is added or validated.<br>
<br>
<br>
To adress Lori's question, about the SOPAC2 management of tags, this<br>
would not be ideal i think.<br>
Insurge would be yet another indexing engine with another technology<br>
(sphynx and mysql). And changing for or adding Insurge would not change<br>
the core problems. It is not the indexing engine... It is the way things<br>
are done, the C4::Search.pm and the way we index things.<br>
<br>
I would have rather index the stuff as a tag index into a zebra/whatever<br>
koha search engine. Working on Solr integration, we pondered on the<br>
question. And decided Not to add A plugin to index tags at the moment...<br>
The more you add indexes, the more you add overhead at indexing time. We<br>
have to work on a solution to index a record as fast as lightning... But<br>
run short of time. And the MARCXML representation is not the "fastest to<br>
parse" one (This could be addressed... But would any library be<br>
interested in funding that idea ? koha should work as fast as it was<br>
in... 2.2... And it is internal work... So, who cares ?). MarcXML choice<br>
may have been clever at one point... But what we did with it was not (I<br>
mean the C4::XSLT.pm and the parsing of stylesheet could be embedded in<br>
a more clever way, the rebuild_zebra in iso2709 only at first...). And<br>
the counterpart is everyday heavier and heavier.<br>
<br>
But still, it would have to index the record when a tag is added...<br>
Which is not ideal. Neither is the present day situation... But at<br>
least, it is not adding some overhead indexing with tags management or<br>
noise in the results.<br>
<br>
But what data is indexed and how it is indexed should be a global<br>
concern (For instance, acquisitions information, user interactions, and<br>
claims may all be indexed into the search engine) ? that would raise<br>
issues for indexing... acquisition elements, privacy, permissions (Do<br>
patrons need to be able to search with acquisition data ?) and so on...<br>
In my humble opinion, that would need to be discussed on a wider scale<br>
than just a company or a dev group, or even a users group.... And not<br>
only librarians, but all the users, that also mean patrons. patrons'<br>
opinion should be important. There is a workgroup need there. Not on a<br>
local base (which would already be nice), but on a widescale base, with<br>
use cases. The whole koha users may have to speak their minds about what<br>
THEY want. And when ppl agree on what they want to see, they could go<br>
through RFP, RFI, CCTP, whatever. And speaking only english could raise<br>
some artificial barriers (indian libraries, french, german users,<br>
pakistanese, spanish users).<br>
<br>
Maybe I am too much demanding, you may think I am just whinning or idle<br>
thinking. But there are groups that gathered and worked and designed<br>
stuff... Why should Koha users around the world not be able to do so ?<br>
<br>
My 2 cents.<br>
--<br>
Henri-Damien LAURENT<br>
<div class="im"><br>
><br>
> I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha;<br>
> they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -Ian<br>
><br>
</div>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <<a href="mailto:glawson@rhcl.org">glawson@rhcl.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:glawson@rhcl.org">glawson@rhcl.org</a>>><br>
<div class="im">><br>
> When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and<br>
> approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from<br>
> the staff interface.<br>
><br>
> That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there<br>
> is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to<br>
> have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an<br>
> otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but<br>
> <gregariously> misspelled, tags.<br>
><br>
> If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags<br>
> listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's<br>
> not really like a search term.<br>
><br>
> Greg<br>
> ================<br>
><br>
><br>
> On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:<br>
>> Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I<br>
>> equate tags with keywords and would think they should be<br>
>> searchable one in the same.<br>
>><br>
>> Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and<br>
>> looking at your own list?<br>
>> Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the<br>
>> LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best<br>
>> way to go, though it does have a price.<br>
>><br>
>> CM<br>
>><br>
</div>>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <<a href="mailto:glawson@rhcl.org">glawson@rhcl.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:glawson@rhcl.org">glawson@rhcl.org</a>>><br>
<div class="im">>><br>
>> Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?<br>
>><br>
>> Greg<br>
>> -----------------------------<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:<br>
>>> We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding<br>
>>> improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily<br>
>>> welcome participative assistance in this regard with any<br>
>>> interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it<br>
>>> with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about<br>
>>> enhancements, or via direct email.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Greg<br>
>>><br>
>>> --------------------------------<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:<br>
>>>> Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you<br>
>>>> still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems<br>
>>>> silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at<br>
>>>> all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the<br>
>>>> feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should*<br>
>>>> be there to make searching more robust.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries<br>
>>>> function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix<br>
>>>> this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be<br>
>>>> curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the<br>
>>>> tags in a catalog search.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Caitlin M<br>
>>>><br>
</div>>>>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <<a href="mailto:glawson@rhcl.org">glawson@rhcl.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:glawson@rhcl.org">glawson@rhcl.org</a>>><br>
<div class="im">>>>><br>
>>>> I don't think you can tag from the staff interface.<br>
>>>> We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so<br>
>>>> maybe this will be a good discussion topic.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> However, you clearly have a separate problem with<br>
>>>> tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You<br>
>>>> have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the<br>
>>>> OPAC configuration there are several settings, like<br>
>>>> tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Of interest, however, I now see that the text for<br>
>>>> tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to<br>
>>>> tag, so I don't know what's with that.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Greg Lawson<br>
>>>> Rolling Hills Consolidated Library<br>
>>>> 1912 N. Belt Highway<br>
>>>> St. Joseph, MO 64506<br>
</div>>>>> <a href="tel:816-232-5479%20x2303" value="+18162325479">816-232-5479 x2303</a> <tel:<a href="tel:816-232-5479" value="+18162325479">816-232-5479</a>%20x2303><br>
<div class="im">>>>><br>
>>>> -----------------------------<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:<br>
>>>>> Hey all,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through<br>
>>>>> the administrative end? I can't find a section for it,<br>
>>>>> other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags<br>
>>>>> to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the<br>
>>>>> item does not appear when a search is done for that tag<br>
>>>>> after.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Suggestions?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> CM<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> Caitlin McGurk<br>
>>>>> /Librarian<br>
>>>>> The Schulz Library<br>
>>>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies<br>
</div>>>>>> <<a href="http://www.cartoonstudies.org" target="_blank">http://www.cartoonstudies.org</a>><br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a><br>
>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a>>/<br>
<div class="im">>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Koha mailing list <a href="http://koha-community.org" target="_blank">http://koha-community.org</a><br>
</div>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a>><br>
<div class="im">>>>>> <a href="http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha" target="_blank">http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Koha mailing list <a href="http://koha-community.org" target="_blank">http://koha-community.org</a><br>
</div>>>>> <a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a>><br>
<div class="im">>>>> <a href="http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha" target="_blank">http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Caitlin McGurk<br>
>>>> /Librarian<br>
>>>> The Schulz Library<br>
</div>>>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies <<a href="http://www.cartoonstudies.org" target="_blank">http://www.cartoonstudies.org</a>><br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a>>/<br>
<div class="im">>>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Koha mailing list <a href="http://koha-community.org" target="_blank">http://koha-community.org</a><br>
</div>>> <a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a>><br>
<div class="im">>> <a href="http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha" target="_blank">http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Caitlin McGurk<br>
>> /Librarian<br>
>> The Schulz Library<br>
</div>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies <<a href="http://www.cartoonstudies.org" target="_blank">http://www.cartoonstudies.org</a>><br>
>> <a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a>>/<br>
<div class="im">>><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Greg Lawson<br>
> Rolling Hills Consolidated Library<br>
> 1912 N. Belt Highway<br>
> St. Joseph, MO 64506<br>
> <a href="tel:816-232-5479%20x2303" value="+18162325479">816-232-5479 x2303</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Koha mailing list <a href="http://koha-community.org" target="_blank">http://koha-community.org</a><br>
</div>> <a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a>><br>
<div class="im">> <a href="http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha" target="_blank">http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Ian Walls<br>
> Lead Development Specialist<br>
> ByWater Solutions<br>
> ALA Booth 732<br>
> Phone # <a href="tel:%28888%29%20900-8944" value="+18889008944">(888) 900-8944</a><br>
> <a href="http://bywatersolutions.com" target="_blank">http://bywatersolutions.com</a><br>
</div>> <a href="mailto:ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com">ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com">ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com</a>><br>
> Twitter: @sekjal<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5">> _______________________________________________<br>
> Koha mailing list <a href="http://koha-community.org" target="_blank">http://koha-community.org</a><br>
> <a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a><br>
> <a href="http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha" target="_blank">http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha</a><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Koha mailing list <a href="http://koha-community.org" target="_blank">http://koha-community.org</a><br>
<a href="mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz">Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha" target="_blank">http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Caitlin McGurk<br><i>Librarian<br>The Schulz Library<br><a href="http://www.cartoonstudies.org" target="_blank">The Center for Cartoon Studies</a><br><a href="mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org" target="_blank">McGurk@cartoonstudies.org</a></i><br>
<br>