[Koha] Message from PTFS/LibLime

[MJ Ray]

ed c wrote:
> --- On Fri, 9/17/10, MJ Ray <mjr at phonecoop.coop> wrote:
> > Huh?  This seems to be ignoring that LibLime has *already* organised
> > and funded the creation of a Koha Software Foundation in Ohio!
> > Registration number 1839255 created 26 Feb 2009, but no-one else knows
> 
> That was Liblime and not PTFS. Please don't cause issues by
> confounding the issue with actions of past players.

I'm confused: I thought PTFS had acquired LibLime and all Koha
operations had transferred to PTFS. After all, that is what the press
release said back in March.  In other words, LibLime is now PTFS.

So it comes as a bit of a surprise to me if some Koha things did not
transfer.  I wonder if that came as a surprise to PTFS's leaders too.

At the time I wrote my last email, I wasn't aware of PTFS's reaction
because it wasn't in the same thread.  Please try not to break thread.
(ed c - you're one of those breaking up the thread.)

> > what its rules are, community participants have asked after that
> > foundation and not got a useful answer, and so on and so on.
> 
> As far as I know, no-one has proposed using this entity created by
> someone that isn't involved in this discussion, so whatever rules it
> has doesn't matter. [...]

It has been proposed before, which is why it was rather disappointing
to have it proposed again while ignoring the outcome of that past
proposal.  Those who do not learn from history... and so on.

> > Does it have to be a 501(c)3?
> 
> This is why we need proposals. Instead of e-mail of IRC.. Propose
> something else if you don't like this instead of complaining.

As those who have read the list for a while may remember, I've already
proposed something else.  Broadly speaking, my preference is:

1. forming a non-profit marketing co-operative (like OCLC) using model
rules from the national body of whatever country it is registered in;

2. joining an existing association like www.spi-inc.org;

3. continuing with HLT holding assets;

4. setting up some other new and Koha-specific association;

5. joining an existing foundation;

6. setting up some other new foundation.

I think we must try not to underestimate the start-up and overhead
costs of forming new bodies, nor the extra risks of foundations, but I
feel that the stable model rules and other benefits of a co-operative
would make it worth starting a new one.

> >  The US's charity law isn't all that great and its banking system 
> > is awful.
> 
> Why isn't the US non-profit law great (note that charity law and
> non-profit law are not the same although related)?

Indeed, charity law and non-profit law are not the same, so why ask me
about US non-profit law when I criticised US charity law?  Basically
the problem there is it doesn't often exist.

> All banking systems are horrible. Instead of lobbing acquisitions
> about US law, please point to specifics and make a proposal that can
> be responded to.

One specific problem is:

  "One of the weaknesses in U.S. payment systems is how easy it is to
  create bogus checks and deposit them at a bank," said Michael Herd,
  a spokesman for NACHA/The Electronics Payments Association, which
  sets rules for electronic bank transfers. --
  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7914159/

Of course account and routing numbers are fairly easy to obtain,
printed on every cheque and used for money transfers.

No banking system is perfect, but I was surprised to discover just how
insecure the US one seems.  On my last trip there, I took a
special-purpose MasterCard and closed the account soon after
returning.  Not only is the US not chip-and-PIN, but most vendors
don't even look at the signature or hologram.

> > Could it be an association rather than a foundation?
> 
> Again, this is why we need proposals. If this is what you think is
> best, please propose it with details why an association is better
> than a foundation. And what you mean be the difference as they can
> be the same thing legally in some jurisdictions.

They may use a similar legal form, but they still aren't the same
thing, even if they are sometimes confused and most countries don't
control the names.

A foundation is a system whose founders have a continuing key role,
possibly with funding through a legacy or endowment, and usually
including picking the future leaders in some way.  An association is
an organisation run by a contributing membership in some way.

I feel an association is better because I don't think those involved
in Koha now (or some subset of them) should get special treatment for
all time.  We don't get special treatment in the code, so why in the
project?

Please see above for a summary of proposals.

Hope that explains,
-- 
MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op.
Webmaster, Debian Developer, Past Koha RM, statistician, former lecturer.
In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html
Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha