Hi all, I've been working closely with customers of LibLime on answering usage related questions (how do I catalog a serial, etc). I've suggested that we start a new list for these types of questions, but I've just learned that this list was supposed to be for that purpose and the koha-developer list was supposed to be for the questions of developers and those installing the system themselves (basically those who have server and programming knowledge). I'm wondering what everyone thinks about setting up these boundaries and enforcing them on these lists. Basically, should this list be for Koha usage questions and the Koha Developer list be for those very techie questions about Perl and Linux and installing Koha on your own. Or do we need a different list for this type of thing? And if we create it will it stay that way? Or will it too turn into a list that looks awfully scary to non-programmer librarians. --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
Hi Nicole. I vote *not* to combine installation/tech support with developer. What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage? Paul Landers I.T. Section Manager TTUHSC Preston Smith Library paul.landers@ttuhsc.edu On Jul 18, 2008, at 10:07 AM, Nicole Engard wrote:
Hi all,
I've been working closely with customers of LibLime on answering usage related questions (how do I catalog a serial, etc). I've suggested that we start a new list for these types of questions, but I've just learned that this list was supposed to be for that purpose and the koha-developer list was supposed to be for the questions of developers and those installing the system themselves (basically those who have server and programming knowledge).
I'm wondering what everyone thinks about setting up these boundaries and enforcing them on these lists. Basically, should this list be for Koha usage questions and the Koha Developer list be for those very techie questions about Perl and Linux and installing Koha on your own. Or do we need a different list for this type of thing? And if we create it will it stay that way? Or will it too turn into a list that looks awfully scary to non-programmer librarians.
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi Paul Paul Landers schrieb:
Hi Nicole.
I vote *not* to combine installation/tech support with developer. What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage?
I second your idea of having three lists, but we have to make shure everybody knows what list he/she has to choose for the question to ask. Beda
Hi I fully agree with the idea. There should be three lists. Henry On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Beda Szukics <beda@muri-gries.ch> wrote:
Hi Paul
Paul Landers schrieb:
Hi Nicole.
I vote *not* to combine installation/tech support with developer. What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage?
I second your idea of having three lists, but we have to make shure everybody knows what list he/she has to choose for the question to ask.
Beda _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having three lists? And does anyone know how we can make it clear what each list is for? I know some lists have moderators - as I've been contacted by them on occasion for going off topic :) --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Henry Lam <henry@silas.org.sg> wrote:
Hi
I fully agree with the idea. There should be three lists.
Henry
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Beda Szukics <beda@muri-gries.ch> wrote:
Hi Paul
Paul Landers schrieb:
Hi Nicole.
I vote *not* to combine installation/tech support with developer. What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage?
I second your idea of having three lists, but we have to make shure everybody knows what list he/she has to choose for the question to ask.
Beda _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
The line between tech support & usage is often not hard-and-fast -- would predict problems in this area, with folks copying both lists ... I would stick w/ the existing 2 list setup unless traffic jumps significantly on this list. Cab Vinton Sanbornton Public Library Sanbornton, NH On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having three lists? And does anyone know how we can make it clear what each list is for? I know some lists have moderators - as I've been contacted by them on occasion for going off topic :)
I say keep to the 2 lists. What I have a hard time with is when I am testing and run across a problem who do I post to - dev or general Discuss first? ie - when I couldn't get the pictures to upload and couldn't figure out why... Turns out there was a cpan dependancy I didn't have... My most recently one is dealing with Authorities and why my records are not loading - would that be a Dev or a Discuss list. These types of questions to me sit on the line and I personally need clarification on which list to post. Hope I wasn't the one that started this discussion! posting to the wrong list! You can always slap my hands virtually it doesn't usually hurt much. ;) David Schuster Cab Vinton wrote:
The line between tech support & usage is often not hard-and-fast -- would predict problems in this area, with folks copying both lists ...
I would stick w/ the existing 2 list setup unless traffic jumps significantly on this list.
Cab Vinton Sanbornton Public Library Sanbornton, NH
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 2:09 PM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having three lists? And does anyone know how we can make it clear what each list is for? I know some lists have moderators - as I've been contacted by them on occasion for going off topic :)
Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Purpose-of-this-list--tp18531390p18610467.html Sent from the Koha - Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
HI ya
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having three lists? And does anyone know how we can make it clear what each list is for? I know some lists have moderators - as I've been contacted by them on occasion for going off topic :)
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer list. If there was more general Koha talk then we could have a talk list & a support list - but it doesn't seem like there is enough of that? There is a bit of a catch 22 here. Adding another list does just make for more lists to monitor if you're one of the question answerers, rather than question askers :-) If it's useful to the developers to try and separate out the various streams I'm happy to setup a Koha support mailing list and we can copy everyone from koha list onto koha-support as well, and then folks can opt out at will. There will still be a lot of the tech archives on the koha list, so we might not get a "clean break". Cheers Rachel
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Henry Lam <henry@silas.org.sg> wrote:
Hi
I fully agree with the idea. There should be three lists.
Henry
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Beda Szukics <beda@muri-gries.ch> wrote:
Hi Paul
Paul Landers schrieb:
Hi Nicole.
I vote *not* to combine installation/tech support with developer. What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage?
I second your idea of having three lists, but we have to make shure everybody knows what list he/she has to choose for the question to ask.
Beda _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- ----------------------------- Rachel Hamilton-Williams General Manager Katipo Communications Ltd Phone: +64-4-934 1285 Mobile: 021 389 128 E-mail: rachel@katipo.co.nz Web: www.katipo.co.nz
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer list.
I would think we wouldn't want to moderate who joins lists - just because the nature of open source is that anyone can become a developer and having membership moderated seems sort of closed off. --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Rachel Hamilton-Williams <rachel@katipo.co.nz> wrote:
HI ya
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having three lists? And does anyone know how we can make it clear what each list is for? I know some lists have moderators - as I've been contacted by them on occasion for going off topic :)
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer list.
If there was more general Koha talk then we could have a talk list & a support list - but it doesn't seem like there is enough of that?
There is a bit of a catch 22 here. Adding another list does just make for more lists to monitor if you're one of the question answerers, rather than question askers :-)
If it's useful to the developers to try and separate out the various streams I'm happy to setup a Koha support mailing list and we can copy everyone from koha list onto koha-support as well, and then folks can opt out at will. There will still be a lot of the tech archives on the koha list, so we might not get a "clean break".
Cheers Rachel
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Henry Lam <henry@silas.org.sg> wrote:
Hi
I fully agree with the idea. There should be three lists.
Henry
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Beda Szukics <beda@muri-gries.ch> wrote:
Hi Paul
Paul Landers schrieb:
Hi Nicole.
I vote *not* to combine installation/tech support with developer. What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage?
I second your idea of having three lists, but we have to make shure everybody knows what list he/she has to choose for the question to ask.
Beda _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- ----------------------------- Rachel Hamilton-Williams General Manager Katipo Communications Ltd
Phone: +64-4-934 1285 Mobile: 021 389 128 E-mail: rachel@katipo.co.nz Web: www.katipo.co.nz
--- On Mon, 7/21/08, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer
From: Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> Subject: Re: [Koha] Purpose of this list? - Adding more lists? To: "Rachel Hamilton-Williams" <rachel@katipo.co.nz> Cc: Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 7:40 AM list.
I would think we wouldn't want to moderate who joins lists - just because the nature of open source is that anyone can become a developer and having membership moderated seems sort of closed off.
I agree. I think the developers on the list could self moderate and if people start asking questions more appropriate for another list, send them in that direction. Edward
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
HI ya
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having
anyone know how we can make it clear what each
some lists have moderators - as I've been contacted by them on occasion for going off topic :)
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 1:01 AM, Rachel Hamilton-Williams <rachel@katipo.co.nz> wrote: three lists? And does list is for? I know list.
If there was more general Koha talk then we could have
support list - but it doesn't seem like there is enough of that?
There is a bit of a catch 22 here. Adding another list does just make for more lists to monitor if you're one of the question answerers, rather than question askers :-)
If it's useful to the developers to try and separate out the various streams I'm happy to setup a Koha support mailing list and we can copy everyone from koha list onto koha-support as well, and then folks can opt out at will. There will still be a lot of the tech archives on the koha list, so we might not get a "clean break".
Cheers Rachel
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Henry Lam <henry@silas.org.sg> wrote:
Hi
I fully agree with the idea. There should be
a talk list & a three lists.
Henry
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 1:55 AM, Beda Szukics
<beda@muri-gries.ch> wrote:
Hi Paul
Paul Landers schrieb:
Hi Nicole.
I vote *not* to combine
installation/tech support with developer.
What about 3 lists: dev, install/tech support and usage?
I second your idea of having three lists, but we have to make shure everybody knows what list he/she has to choose for the question to ask.
Beda
Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz
Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz
http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- ----------------------------- Rachel Hamilton-Williams General Manager Katipo Communications Ltd
Phone: +64-4-934 1285 Mobile: 021 389 128 E-mail: rachel@katipo.co.nz Web: www.katipo.co.nz
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:48 AM, ed c <terrapin44@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- On Mon, 7/21/08, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer
From: Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> Subject: Re: [Koha] Purpose of this list? - Adding more lists? To: "Rachel Hamilton-Williams" <rachel@katipo.co.nz> Cc: Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 7:40 AM list.
I would think we wouldn't want to moderate who joins lists - just because the nature of open source is that anyone can become a developer and having membership moderated seems sort of closed off.
I agree. I think the developers on the list could self moderate and if people start asking questions more appropriate for another list, send them in that direction. Edward
I don't think we've necessarily had a problem of the developer's list not moderating, more that there was some concern that the Koha User's list has a mix of both Usage and 'How do I Install Koha' type questions that get pretty technical. The fear I've heard expressed is that librarians who would normally feel comfortable posting questions about Usage are scarred off by all of the system-level technical talk relating to 'how do I install Koha'. I can't verify this personally ... I've never had anyone tell me that specifically, but it does have the ring of truth :-) So I see two options: 1. create another list (we have far more than two already folks) specifically for Usage, or specifically for 'How do I Install Koha' 2. do a better job of moderating the Koha user's list (this one) to help it focus on less technical, more Usage questions. I personally favor #2. Cheers, -- Joshua Ferraro SUPPORT FOR OPEN-SOURCE SOFTWARE CEO migration, training, maintenance, support LibLime Featuring Koha Open-Source ILS jmf@liblime.com |Full Demos at http://liblime.com/koha |1(888)KohaILS
"Nicole Engard" <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I'm wondering what everyone thinks about setting up these boundaries and enforcing them on these lists. Basically, should this list be for Koha usage questions and the Koha Developer list be for those very techie questions about Perl and Linux and installing Koha on your own.
Yes, it should. I think the problem is that the moderators of these lists went to sleep or went away a long time ago and, over time, the list descriptions have been lost and very little moderation happens now.
Or do we need a different list for this type of thing? And if we create it will it stay that way? Or will it too turn into a list that looks awfully scary to non-programmer librarians.
If another list is required, I'd suggest koha-install, with its moderation overseen by koha-devel. "Nicole Engard" <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Thanks for the input. Is anyone against having three lists? And does anyone know how we can make it clear what each list is for?
We've already got far more than three (this, -devel, -translate, -fr, -bugs just for me). I don't really want any more lists. We can make it clearer what each list if for by putting descriptions on http://lists.koha.org/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel and http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha and making sure they link back to http://www.koha.org/community/mailing-lists.html (well done katipo - naughty koha.org) "Cab Vinton" <bibliwho@gmail.com> wrote:
The line between tech support & usage is often not hard-and-fast -- would predict problems in this area, with folks copying both lists ...
If it happens often, moderators should put an automatic moderation-hold on crossposts and keywords, sanction people for multi-posting and give clear advice in the list descriptions. Rachel Hamilton-Williams <rachel@katipo.co.nz> wrote:
Henri (list moderator for koha-dev) can possibly clarify, but the developer list pretty clearly says it's for developers. If we wanted to do anything there, it could be to moderate who joins the developer list.
Most of the developer list description fields are blank. I'd be in favour of moderating first-posts to the developer list (a feature of recent Mailman versions), but not moderating subscription. "Nicole Engard" <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
I would think we wouldn't want to moderate who joins lists - just because the nature of open source is that anyone can become a developer and having membership moderated seems sort of closed off.
I don't think being open means that we have to leave ourselves open to unwanted use. Like free software, it's easier to explain in terms of freedom: your freedom to swing your arm ends at my nose! Any moderation needs to be overseen, verifiable and consistent, though. See e-democracy.org for where I look for advice. Different field, similar best practice. "Joshua Ferraro" <jmf@liblime.com> wrote:
I wonder if this is the right time to ask: Shouldn't we try to consolidate all the mailing lists to the lists.koha.org domain? [...]
No. Mailman doesn't support list migration - the List-Id always changes, which is wrong. We broke filters by moving -devel from GNU to koha.org. I'd hate to do that to a list the size of the katipo one. Hope that helps, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
HI ya
I'm wondering what everyone thinks about setting up these boundaries and enforcing them on these lists. Basically, should this list be for Koha usage questions and the Koha Developer list be for those very techie questions about Perl and Linux and installing Koha on your own.
Yes, it should. I think the problem is that the moderators of these lists went to sleep or went away a long time ago and, over time, the list descriptions have been lost and very little moderation happens now.
I suspect that possibly people don't think of themselves as developers, so don't join the list - rather than seeing it as the place they can *ask* the developers etc. I can go and change the text on the subscriptions page to make it clear that the developer list is the place to go for techy & install help (not just for people planning on making new modules etc). Cheers Rachel -- ----------------------------- Rachel Hamilton-Williams General Manager Katipo Communications Ltd Phone: +64-4-934 1285 Mobile: 021 389 128 E-mail: rachel@katipo.co.nz Web: www.katipo.co.nz
participants (10)
-
Beda Szukics -
Cab Vinton -
David Schuster -
ed c -
Henry Lam -
Joshua Ferraro -
MJ Ray -
Nicole Engard -
Paul Landers -
Rachel Hamilton-Williams