On 10/04/2008, Joshua Ferraro <jmf@liblime.com> wrote: [...]
Well, we can certainly take a vote on-list, I personally found your response much more offensive than the PDF file.
I'm a not-very-technical librarian with an interest in the possibilities Koha offers to ill-funded specialist libraries like the ones I'm associated with. I find such talk as this "Linked libs: -lexslt -lxslt -lxml2 -lpthread -lz -lm -lsocket -lnsl -lsocket -lnsl -R/usr/sfw/lib -L/usr/sfw/lib -lssl -lcrypto -lsocket -lnsl -ldl" rather scary, because I don't understand it.
However, I also find an aggressive tone on an internet list scary, because I do understand it. A list is a delicate ecology. Anyone who has been on more than a few lists will know how easily people can be driven away and a list wrecked by the insensitivity of a few. There are confronting ways to make criticisms, including legitimate ones, and the web seems to amplify the harsh tones. There are also more delicate ways to make the same points. It is to the benefit of all to choose the second. I support Joshua in this. The more knowledgeable people on the Koha list are extraordinarily helpful to those of us who are less expert, and I think all of us have reason to appreciate their expertise and generosity. If someone needs "education" in netiquette, there are graceful ways to do it. Let's just keep the temperature down. -- Dr Paul Chandler | Institutum Carmelitanum via Sforza Pallavicini, 10 | 00193 - Roma | Italy tel: +39-06-6810.0849 | fax: +39-06-6830.7200 paul.anthony.chandler@gmail.com
Dear all, I stongly support Paul Chandler' s words. KOHA seems to see the first open and colaborative project a true Library 2.0 thanks to the people envolved. Let?s be open and colaborative, Rafael Antonio Citando Paul Chandler <paul.anthony.chandler@gmail.com>:
On 10/04/2008, JOSHUA FERRARO <jmf@liblime.com> wrote: [...] Well, we can certainly take a vote on-list, I personally found your response much more offensive than the PDF file.
I'm a not-very-technical librarian with an interest in the possibilities Koha offers to ill-funded specialist libraries like the ones I'm associated with. I find such talk as this "Linked libs: -lexslt -lxslt -lxml2 -lpthread -lz -lm -lsocket -lnsl -lsocket -lnsl -R/usr/sfw/lib -L/usr/sfw/lib -lssl -lcrypto -lsocket -lnsl -ldl" rather scary, because I don't understand it. However, I also find an aggressive tone on an internet list scary, because I do understand it. A list is a delicate ecology. Anyone who has been on more than a few lists will know how easily people can be driven away and a list wrecked by the insensitivity of a few. There are confronting ways to make criticisms, including legitimate ones, and the web seems to amplify the harsh tones. There are also more delicate ways to make the same points. It is to the benefit of all to choose the second. I support Joshua in this. The more knowledgeable people on the Koha list are extraordinarily helpful to those of us who are less expert, and I think all of us have reason to appreciate their expertise and generosity. If someone needs "education" in netiquette, there are graceful ways to do it. Let's just keep the temperature down. -- Dr Paul Chandler | Institutum Carmelitanum via Sforza Pallavicini, 10 | 00193 - Roma | Italy tel: +39-06-6810.0849 | fax: +39-06-6830.7200 paul.anthony.chandler@gmail.com
rafael.antonio@sapo.pt wrote: [...]
Let?s be open and colaborative,
Yes, sure, definitely - just look who I work for! The first cooperative to offer Koha service AFAIK. I support collaboration whole-heartedly. Being open and collaborative requires that we protect our communication channels, which are vital for collaboration, from inappropriate behaviour, doesn't it? Large attachments might help close the list off to those on slow connections, and direct marketing might help close the list off from non-commercial networks. I'm surprised attachments aren't held for moderation by the list server. Dr Paul Chandler wrote: [...]
However, I also find an aggressive tone on an internet list scary, because I do understand it. A list is a delicate ecology. [...]
It's more delicate than that. Tone, as such, does not come out in email. That's well-known and has been shown by research like that described in American Psychological Association's Monitor http://www.apa.org/monitor/feb06/egos.html Well, I've been writing emails yesterday and today with an exasperated tone. I find it hard to believe how this is being dragged out and turned into a flamewar by people who claim to hate flamewars. I feel that my two-line email equivalent of a raised eyebrow has been reinterpreted and portrayed as something it wasn't meant to be. elizabeth reacted to it in a very positive way, as I've written in email off-list, *before* John Springer and Joshua Ferraro chipped in. I'm sorry for my part in that, but I can't put this toothpaste back in the tube, so please don't email the list to reinterpret it again as aggressive or about trust. It really wasn't meant like that. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef) Webmaster for hire, statistician and online shop builder for a small worker cooperative http://www.ttllp.co.uk/ http://mjr.towers.org.uk/ (Notice http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html) tel:+44-844-4437-237
MJ Ray wrote:
Large attachments might help close the list off to those on slow connections, and direct marketing might help close the list off from non-commercial networks.
MJ's point about slow connections must not be taken lightly. Many third world (*our* term, sorry) countries have limited access to the Internet. They would be lucky to get a 56 Kb/s modem. Hello to Tibet, Nepal, India, Sri Lank, Laos, Viet Nam, Thailand, etc etc and Nigeria, Zambia etc in Africa! Mailing lists are and always have been intended for the rapid dissemination of minimal amounts of *TEXT* information to many members at the same time. Attaching 1.0 MB attachments can slow that access of these members by many factors. Assume that our mailing list has 5000 members. That 1 MB attachment becomes 5 GB of data transfer that the koha.org server has to handle. In addition to the hundreds and thousands of other messages and broadcasts it has to do daily. And the web requests, etc. It is called resource conservation. And, of course, binary attachments are a well-known vector of viral infection on Windows computers. Not that anyone involved in this firebattle attempted to send a virus. As a matter of fact, it is apparent that most of this bluey (Aus.) is lost on the OP!
I'm surprised attachments aren't held for moderation by the list server.
Attachements should be discarded automatically. The email system != the web. cheers rickw -- ________________________________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services || Internet Driving Instructor The best way to accelerate a PC is 9.8 m/s2 -- anon
participants (4)
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MJ Ray -
Paul Chandler -
rafael.antonio＠sapo.pt -
Rick Welykochy