I would be interested in a price comparison from someone with a similar setup as to what Koha Express offers for a small library with limited IT support. While I have some questions about the details of Koha Express (such is how you restore from backups, what are the experiences of people already using it, what type of access do you get to your server (do you get root access?), is there an exit plan, etc.), if you don't have a person who is already familiar with the software Koha runs on top of (mostly Linux, Apache, mysql) or wants to learn, I don't see how a small library can do better price wise for what it is. I host a very small Koha install for a departmental library (about 1000 items), but I'm sure if I billed by hour that it took more than $300 of my time to install, test, and configure the backups for our base system (i.e. before any customizations - basically to get to the basic Koha Express point). I realize I won't have to reinstall it every year, but still I am not sure there would be financial benefits of hosting it ourselves if we didn't already have the equipment and IT knowledge needed to run Koha (which really isn't a huge amount, as I said, if someone already knows Linux/UNIX). We didn't purchase a new server because we are run Koha on a virtual machine, but if we wanted to do so I would think that the server + backup hardware + UPS + electricity, etc. would cost > $300 a year. You may also need to look at your Internet connectivity plan to see if it needs to be upgraded (sometimes you are not allowed to run servers). I think if an IT person was knowledgeable about running applications in the cloud, the cost would be less than what LibLime charges for Koha Express, but the initial setup may be time consuming. I'm actually not even sure if it would be less since a virtual private server of decent size is usually more than $30 a month. I haven' tried to price a "cloud" server, so I really don't know what that would cost. That said, there is a lot of joy and pride in doing it yourself. If I were in Beth's position I would talk to my IT people to see if they want to give it a go and than have them look into it. I'm sure the people familiar with Koha on this list would be wiling to offer a lot of help. Edward --- On Wed, 1/20/10, Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz> wrote:
From: Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz> Subject: Re: [Koha] koha express To: "Beth Heller" <bheller@americanalpineclub.org> Cc: koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010, 5:36 PM Hi Beth,
We host ours on-site and have real no IT expertise other than checking everything is plugged in, switched and how to run the ping command.
This is how we do it:
We have 3 libraries in different towns using the same instance of Koha hosted on a server in the central library. Connection is live via a standard adsl (broadband) connection. NZ broadband is crap so no faster than 512mb connection (no leased line, T1 etc).
The servers cost about $NZ8k each and we have 2 of them. Each one is a mirror of the other, and each one has multiple disks doing a Raid array something. (Some techie person will know exactly what that means).
The point here is though is that we have provided for disk failure on each machine, and also machine failure. Additionally, we have a nightly data backup offsite to a server in another city, thus providing for building failure (fire) and 'city' failure (earthquake.)
We have the server in our main library so that if the internet goes down (no - NZ is not a 3rd world country but I sometimes think our internet is!) then at least we can still operate at our busiest site. Our vendor configured the servers to set up the hardware (say a days work) and then downloaded and installed Koha, managed the data migration / conversion, and fixes bugs that we report and codes enhancements that we request.
We do not have a service contract with our vendor. We pay as we go for actual time and materials. This is because over the last 10 years we have learnt that once the servers are turned on and running - we can ignore them. Linux boxes just keep going and Koha is rock solid. Our vendor can remotely access the servers and koha itself to run periodic updates etc.
There is a 'risk' in running computer systems and you have to decide as an organisation whether you are willing to take the risk and therefore just pay for whatever work your vendor does for you, or do you 'pay' for that risk to be carried by someone else ie the vendor. I would suggest that this costs you more but on the flip side gives you surety in terms of budget management. For instance we have never paid more than $NZ 8k per annum for standard IT support, although considerable more in the years we have done major upgrdes (say $NZ 20k - $NZ 30k in 3 years over the last 10) I think thee xchange rate is roughly $NZ 2 = $USD 1 : so half my prices :)
Is this helpful? Chris Cormack may be able to explain better what our server setup is in detail and my prices were ballpark. Bottom line is its easy, affordable and rock solid.
Cheers Jo.
2010/1/21 Beth Heller <bheller@americanalpineclub.org>
Thanks all for the extraordinary welcome!
The reason we were going with Express rather than installing it ourselves is that we don't have full access to our remote server, and we liked the install, cloud hosting and upgrades packaging.
So - is there a Koha-install work-around for not having root access to the server?
Alternatively, any recommendations if we just buy a server? I don't know anything about that but maybe we could find the money. How big, what kind?
Thanks again!
Beth Heller Preservation Librarian American Alpine Club 710 Tenth Street Suite 15 Golden, CO 80401 303-384-0110 x13 bheller@americanalpineclub.org
http://aaclibrary.wordpress.com
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Chris Nighswonger <cnighswonger@foundations.edu> wrote:
Hi Beth,
Welcome to the Koha community!
2010/1/20 Beth Heller <bheller@americanalpineclub.org>
Hi. I am one of two librarians at the American Alpine Club in Golden, Colorado - all mountains, all the time. We've got about 60,000 volumes, 20,000 that circulate, and a very small budget. We do have some IT support and one amazing volunteer to help with the tech side of this project, but I am not a coder at all. We are migrating from Spectrum Winnebago.
I was planning to upload to Koha Express this week, but given the buyout was wondering if anyone had any information about whether this product will continue and/or any alternatives. Inexpensive alternatives.
Yes there is a very inexpensive alternative: Host Koha on your own in-house server. This is not hard at all and with your support and volunteer, you should be up and running in no time. If you/they need help, feel free to post questions here and/or join the IRC channel #koha at irc.katipo.co.nz
You can also take a look here: http://git.koha.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=Koha;a=tree
You will see several files with the word 'INSTALL' in them. Simply click on the filename and you can read upon the installation proceedure. The word following the period in the name (INSTALL.foo) indicates the flavor (foo) of Linux that proceedure is customized for. They are all very similar. Using Ubuntu Server, you can setup a Koha server in a couple of hours.
I would also love to hear from anyone with experience using Koha Express, and anyone who has migrated from Winnebago.
There are several on the list who have migrated from Winnebago to Koha, iirc. Perhaps someone who has this experience will respond with help in this regard.
Kind Regards, Chris
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