[Koha] tagging in koha
LAURENT Henri-Damien
henridamien.laurent at biblibre.com
Thu May 26 04:30:30 NZST 2011
Le 25/05/2011 14:38, Ian Walls a écrit :
> The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that
> they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds
> it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to
> inject the tags.
>
> So, our options are:
>
> 1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea
> for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate
> the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record)
>
> 2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them
> separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields.
> Complicated, but flexible.
>
> 3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and
> if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra.
Hi
hopping into the thread.
Could also be done tweaking the rebuild_zebra which would take some
mysql information and put them into a marcrecord with hardcoded
tags/subfields (090 091 990 ? For Internal Koha usage... Some quite
important mysql data such as last modified, first created, and so on
could also be added that way.) Maybe a kind of plugin for rebuild_zebra.
But I would have rather more librarians to talk about that issue.
Some librarians will want to index those tags, others won't because it
will add some noise and users donot add "correct and valid" tags.
Problem would to add to zebraqueue as soon as a tag is added or validated.
To adress Lori's question, about the SOPAC2 management of tags, this
would not be ideal i think.
Insurge would be yet another indexing engine with another technology
(sphynx and mysql). And changing for or adding Insurge would not change
the core problems. It is not the indexing engine... It is the way things
are done, the C4::Search.pm and the way we index things.
I would have rather index the stuff as a tag index into a zebra/whatever
koha search engine. Working on Solr integration, we pondered on the
question. And decided Not to add A plugin to index tags at the moment...
The more you add indexes, the more you add overhead at indexing time. We
have to work on a solution to index a record as fast as lightning... But
run short of time. And the MARCXML representation is not the "fastest to
parse" one (This could be addressed... But would any library be
interested in funding that idea ? koha should work as fast as it was
in... 2.2... And it is internal work... So, who cares ?). MarcXML choice
may have been clever at one point... But what we did with it was not (I
mean the C4::XSLT.pm and the parsing of stylesheet could be embedded in
a more clever way, the rebuild_zebra in iso2709 only at first...). And
the counterpart is everyday heavier and heavier.
But still, it would have to index the record when a tag is added...
Which is not ideal. Neither is the present day situation... But at
least, it is not adding some overhead indexing with tags management or
noise in the results.
But what data is indexed and how it is indexed should be a global
concern (For instance, acquisitions information, user interactions, and
claims may all be indexed into the search engine) ? that would raise
issues for indexing... acquisition elements, privacy, permissions (Do
patrons need to be able to search with acquisition data ?) and so on...
In my humble opinion, that would need to be discussed on a wider scale
than just a company or a dev group, or even a users group.... And not
only librarians, but all the users, that also mean patrons. patrons'
opinion should be important. There is a workgroup need there. Not on a
local base (which would already be nice), but on a widescale base, with
use cases. The whole koha users may have to speak their minds about what
THEY want. And when ppl agree on what they want to see, they could go
through RFP, RFI, CCTP, whatever. And speaking only english could raise
some artificial barriers (indian libraries, french, german users,
pakistanese, spanish users).
Maybe I am too much demanding, you may think I am just whinning or idle
thinking. But there are groups that gathered and worked and designed
stuff... Why should Koha users around the world not be able to do so ?
My 2 cents.
--
Henri-Damien LAURENT
>
> I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha;
> they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible.
>
>
> -Ian
>
> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson at rhcl.org <mailto:glawson at rhcl.org>>
>
> When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and
> approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from
> the staff interface.
>
> That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there
> is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to
> have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an
> otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but
> <gregariously> misspelled, tags.
>
> If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags
> listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's
> not really like a search term.
>
> Greg
> ================
>
>
> On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
>> Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I
>> equate tags with keywords and would think they should be
>> searchable one in the same.
>>
>> Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and
>> looking at your own list?
>> Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the
>> LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best
>> way to go, though it does have a price.
>>
>> CM
>>
>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson at rhcl.org <mailto:glawson at rhcl.org>>
>>
>> Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?
>>
>> Greg
>> -----------------------------
>>
>>
>> On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
>>> We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding
>>> improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily
>>> welcome participative assistance in this regard with any
>>> interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it
>>> with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about
>>> enhancements, or via direct email.
>>>
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> --------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
>>>> Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
>>>>
>>>> I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you
>>>> still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems
>>>> silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at
>>>> all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the
>>>> feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should*
>>>> be there to make searching more robust.
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries
>>>> function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix
>>>> this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be
>>>> curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the
>>>> tags in a catalog search.
>>>>
>>>> Caitlin M
>>>>
>>>> 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson at rhcl.org <mailto:glawson at rhcl.org>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think you can tag from the staff interface.
>>>> We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so
>>>> maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
>>>>
>>>> However, you clearly have a separate problem with
>>>> tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You
>>>> have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the
>>>> OPAC configuration there are several settings, like
>>>> tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
>>>>
>>>> Of interest, however, I now see that the text for
>>>> tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to
>>>> tag, so I don't know what's with that.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Greg Lawson
>>>> Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
>>>> 1912 N. Belt Highway
>>>> St. Joseph, MO 64506
>>>> 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>
>>>>> How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through
>>>>> the administrative end? I can't find a section for it,
>>>>> other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags
>>>>> to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the
>>>>> item does not appear when a search is done for that tag
>>>>> after.
>>>>>
>>>>> Suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>> CM
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Caitlin McGurk
>>>>> /Librarian
>>>>> The Schulz Library
>>>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies
>>>>> <http://www.cartoonstudies.org>
>>>>> McGurk at cartoonstudies.org
>>>>> <mailto:McGurk at cartoonstudies.org>/
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
>>>>> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
>>>>> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
>>>> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
>>>> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Caitlin McGurk
>>>> /Librarian
>>>> The Schulz Library
>>>> The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org>
>>>> McGurk at cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk at cartoonstudies.org>/
>>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Caitlin McGurk
>> /Librarian
>> The Schulz Library
>> The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org>
>> McGurk at cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk at cartoonstudies.org>/
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Greg Lawson
> Rolling Hills Consolidated Library
> 1912 N. Belt Highway
> St. Joseph, MO 64506
> 816-232-5479 x2303
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org
> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz>
> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
>
>
>
> --
> Ian Walls
> Lead Development Specialist
> ByWater Solutions
> ALA Booth 732
> Phone # (888) 900-8944
> http://bywatersolutions.com
> ian.walls at bywatersolutions.com <mailto:ian.walls at bywatersolutions.com>
> Twitter: @sekjal
>
>
>
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