[Koha] Users and developers (was KUDOS - ALA Proposed Agenda)

[Lori Ayre]

Hi David,
I think it is important not to overreact to what happened with LL by making
KUDOS a group to which developers are not welcome.  Like Owen said, users
becomes developer and the more access users and developers have to each
other, the better.  Excluding developers seems (at best) unnecessary and not
at all straight-forward. At worst, it is creating a divide between two
groups of participants in the Koha effort that we really don't want to have
divided at all!

Lori
Non-user, Non-Developer, but Committed to the Use of Koha in NA Libraries
Nonetheless

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 7:43 PM, David Schuster <dschust1 at tx.rr.com> wrote:

>
> As one of the individuals that is ATTEMPTING to put some structure to this
> and get it off the ground I would love suggestions on how to make this work
> for the community.
>
> I hate confrontation and love constructive criticism - and am open for
> suggestions on how to make this work for the community in North America.  I
> don't want to put people at opposite poles, but also must work within the
> regulations of the IRS.
>
> I am open to suggestions on how we can get KUDOS up and running so as to
> function to benefit all of us.  I see KUDOS as a major help in getting
> conferences to work, possible joint development/grant writing/managing -
> IMLS is always looking for collaborative ventures between various library
> types.  WE ARE IT!
>
> I don't mind rants, I don't mind listening, but help me build the structure
> so that we can work and move forward.  What specifically do you suggest to
> make this work and stay away from the proprietary user group structure.
>
> Trying our best to get it right.
>
> David Schuster - don't shoot the messenger if you don't like the way it
> looks - help us out as libraries are known to do so well.  HELP each other.
>
> Owen Leonard-4 wrote:
> >
> > Okay, get ready for a rant...
> >
> >> Sometimes "users" and "developers" are at opposite poles...
> >
> > When? I'm a Koha user. And in using Koha I saw that I could make Koha
> > better, and in time became a Koha developer. There is no Koha
> > developer out there who is developing Koha features just because they
> > think it would be cool to do. Koha developers are doing their work
> > because they *see* a need, in an actual user or an actual library. Or
> > developers are getting paid by libraries to develop the features the
> > libraries need.
> >
> > Here's when users and developers are at opposite poles:
> >
> > - When a company decides to develop a feature that they think will
> > help sell a product, even though the feature doesn't meet any actual
> > need
> > - When a company throttles or cripples a feature in a product because
> > they want to charge extra for a particular feature
> >
> > No self-respecting Koha developer or Koha support company is doing
> > that kind of stuff. That's why we're here.
> >
> >> I think this is more about giving the "users" more of a voice than
> >> they've traditionally had in
> >> the past, no?
> >
> > I honestly don't know where this comes from. The Koha project is just
> > about as open and accessible as any software project can be. You can
> > participate on the mailing list, you can submit bug reports yourself,
> > you can submit your own patches or hire your own programmers to write
> > code for you. You can talk to Koha developers on IRC almost 24 hours a
> > day!
> >
> > The only way in which one might consider that users need "more of a
> > voice" is if you think of it in terms of working collectively to
> > achieve a goal that Koha libraries individually could not. If that's
> > the intention of that statement then, rant over. I agree 100% that
> > libraries should be seeking ways to pool their resources ($$) to get
> > done the things they want done, i.e. hire developers or commission
> > existing companies to do work for them.
> >
> > However, if by "more of a voice" you mean, "If we all get together an
> > ask for a feature the Koha developers should implement it," then no.
> > This is open source, but time is money. You can donate your time (as I
> > do, every day, in code, markup, email, and IRC) or you can donate your
> > money--in the form of paid development work.
> >
> > This doesn't shut anyone out. But yes, there is a bar that you have to
> > clear. I don't know how else it can work.
> >
> > So: Let's get together as users and/or developers and figure out how
> > we can get some stuff done. Let's put together a structure by which
> > Koha users can spec out new features and get them funded,
> > collectively. Let's put together a structure by which Koha users can
> > communicate with their vendors without fear of exclusion or reprisal.
> > Let's not talk about a users group breaking down some barrier that
> > isn't really there--let's talk about strengthening and leveraging the
> > connection that we *already have!*
> >
> >   -- Owen
> >
> > --
> > Web Developer
> > Athens County Public Libraries
> > http://www.myacpl.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Koha mailing list
> > Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz
> > http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://old.nabble.com/Re%3A-Users-and-developers-%28was-KUDOS---ALA-Proposed-Agenda%29-tp27235392p27236424.html
> Sent from the Koha - Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Koha mailing list
> Koha at lists.katipo.co.nz
> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.katipo.co.nz/pipermail/koha/attachments/20100120/75b36def/attachment-0001.htm