Hi all, According to a chat I had with Owen on #koha, there has been some discussion of creating sound cues in the staff client with a 'small embedded flash file to play the sound." Our librarians want auditory feedback at both checkin and checkout, so they can interact with the books and patron, rather than looking at the screen after every scan to make sure the transaction was completed successfully. What is the status on this? Is it an enhancement that may be in 3.2? Sharon Moreland Northeast Kansas Library System NExpress Shared Catalog
Sharon, I have heard other Koha users ask for the same thing - but I haven't seen any documentation or an RFC for it. --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Sharon Moreland <smoreland@nekls.org> wrote:
Hi all, According to a chat I had with Owen on #koha, there has been some discussion of creating sound cues in the staff client with a 'small embedded flash file to play the sound." Our librarians want auditory feedback at both checkin and checkout, so they can interact with the books and patron, rather than looking at the screen after every scan to make sure the transaction was completed successfully. What is the status on this? Is it an enhancement that may be in 3.2?
Sharon Moreland Northeast Kansas Library System NExpress Shared Catalog _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Sharon,
I have heard other Koha users ask for the same thing - but I haven't seen any documentation or an RFC for it.
Kapiti District Library here in NZ had this, I'm not sure if they still do. Mason might be able to answer. Chris
On 2008/11/11, at 8:51 AM, Chris Cormack wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Sharon,
I have heard other Koha users ask for the same thing - but I haven't seen any documentation or an RFC for it.
Kapiti District Library here in NZ had this, I'm not sure if they still do.
Mason might be able to answer.
hiya folks, yes, Kapiti do indeed have an 'audio-cues' mod on their koha. a quick look in the tmpl files seems to indicate a simple <embed> tag doing the magic, woo!... <!-- TMPL_IF Name="good_return" --> <!-- Play a sound if the item was returned properly --> <EMBED SRC="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/ sounds/ding.wav" type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed> <!-- /TMPL_IF --> this 'just-works' on my firefox3, at least hopefully, the above example should be a good start to your success, happy ding-ing... :) Mason.
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Mason James <mason.loves.sushi@gmail.com>wrote:
On 2008/11/11, at 8:51 AM, Chris Cormack wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Sharon,
I have heard other Koha users ask for the same thing - but I haven't seen any documentation or an RFC for it.
Kapiti District Library here in NZ had this, I'm not sure if they still do.
Mason might be able to answer.
hiya folks,
yes, Kapiti do indeed have an 'audio-cues' mod on their koha.
a quick look in the tmpl files seems to indicate a simple <embed> tag doing the magic, woo!...
<!-- TMPL_IF Name="good_return" --> <!-- Play a sound if the item was returned properly --> <EMBED SRC="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/ sounds/ding.wav" type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed> <!-- /TMPL_IF -->
this 'just-works' on my firefox3, at least
hopefully, the above example should be a good start to your success, happy ding-ing... :)
Mason. _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
I've added sound cues to my library's installation of Koha as well, though only for our AJAX batch item delete tool. <embed> seems to work well, and apparently can even be portably scripted (useful for AJAX apps). -- Jesse Weaver Software Developer, LibLime
EDIT: Resending; apparently the list didn't like "Reply to All"
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 8:51 PM, Mason James <mason.loves.sushi@gmail.com>wrote:
On 2008/11/11, at 8:51 AM, Chris Cormack wrote:
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
Sharon,
I have heard other Koha users ask for the same thing - but I haven't seen any documentation or an RFC for it.
Kapiti District Library here in NZ had this, I'm not sure if they still do.
Mason might be able to answer.
hiya folks,
yes, Kapiti do indeed have an 'audio-cues' mod on their koha.
a quick look in the tmpl files seems to indicate a simple <embed> tag doing the magic, woo!...
<!-- TMPL_IF Name="good_return" --> <!-- Play a sound if the item was returned properly --> <EMBED SRC="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/ sounds/ding.wav" type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed> <!-- /TMPL_IF -->
this 'just-works' on my firefox3, at least
hopefully, the above example should be a good start to your success, happy ding-ing... :)
Mason. _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
I've added sound cues to my library's installation of Koha as well, though only for our AJAX batch item delete tool.
<embed> seems to work well, and apparently can even be portably scripted (useful for AJAX apps). -- Jesse Weaver Software Developer, LibLime
Mason James wrote:
a quick look in the tmpl files seems to indicate a simple <embed> tag doing the magic, woo!...
<!-- TMPL_IF Name="good_return" --> <!-- Play a sound if the item was returned properly --> <EMBED SRC="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/ sounds/ding.wav" type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed> <!-- /TMPL_IF -->
A .WAV file is the way to go. It requires nothing additional in the browser. Works on all platforms. Embedding FLASH requires that Flahs is installed, which should not be a prerequesite for Koha, IMHO. cheers rickw -- ________________________________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services || Internet Driving Instructor When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. -- Jimi Hendrix
On 2008/11/12, at 10:37 AM, Rick Welykochy wrote:
Mason James wrote:
a quick look in the tmpl files seems to indicate a simple <embed> tag doing the magic, woo!... <!-- TMPL_IF Name="good_return" --> <!-- Play a sound if the item was returned properly --> <EMBED SRC="<!-- TMPL_VAR NAME='themelang' -->/includes/ sounds/ding.wav" type="audio/wav" autostart=true hidden=true loop=1 height=60 width=128 </embed> <!-- /TMPL_IF -->
A .WAV file is the way to go. It requires nothing additional in the browser. Works on all platforms.
Embedding FLASH requires that Flahs is installed, which should not be a prerequesite for Koha, IMHO.
cheers rickw
Yeah, i agree. the embedded WAV tag is a simpler/cleaner/open-source solution over the SWF method What do other people think? Mason.
Mason James wrote:
the embedded WAV tag is a simpler/cleaner/open-source solution over the SWF method
I do believe .WAV is a microsoft proprietary format, but let's not split hairs :) <http://www.digitalpreservation.gov/formats/fdd/fdd000001.shtml> mentions that there are no patent encumbrances with .WAV files. We could go for a .OGG file if you want to keep things strictly open, but I doubt MS/InternetExplorer will be supporting that anytime soon. Be aware that this format is uncompressed. A four minute song would take about 35 MB to store in .WAV format. For the purposes of an alert sound, I would like to know how big the .WAV file will be. Any takers? cheers rickw -- ________________________________________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services || Internet Driving Instructor When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. -- Jimi Hendrix
On 2008/11/12, at 2:29 PM, Rick Welykochy wrote:
Mason James wrote:
the embedded WAV tag is a simpler/cleaner/open-source solution over the SWF method
I do believe .WAV is a microsoft proprietary format, but let's not split hairs :) We could go for a .OGG file if you want to keep things strictly open, but I doubt MS/InternetExplorer will be supporting that anytime soon.
yep, .ogg would be even better my safari, FF3 and opera all work fine playing an ogg file it looks like most modern browsers will play oggs test here -> http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/listen.html being uncompressed, wav could be a bad format for network performance, i assume/hope the wavs are cached locally by the broswer, ?! supported, compressed and FOSS makes ogg the perfect choice for me Mason.
I don't think I follow you at all, Mason. The page you link doesn't include any <embed> functionality so it doesn't demonstrate browser compatibility for our purposes. You would have to test it inside <embed> on systems that do not have any extra codecs or players installed, and certainly without any browser plug-ins. I suspect a (small!) .wav file will be the most reliable way to go. Obviously a wav won't be smaller than a corresponding compressed file, but we don't want to require or wait for a 3rd-party browser-embedded player to load. There would only need to be one file, as far as I can tell, since on a real error we can use a javascript alert and get the usual ding. --Joe On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Mason James <mason.loves.sushi@gmail.com>wrote:
On 2008/11/12, at 2:29 PM, Rick Welykochy wrote:
Mason James wrote:
the embedded WAV tag is a simpler/cleaner/open-source solution over the SWF method
I do believe .WAV is a microsoft proprietary format, but let's not split hairs :) We could go for a .OGG file if you want to keep things strictly open, but I doubt MS/InternetExplorer will be supporting that anytime soon.
yep, .ogg would be even better
my safari, FF3 and opera all work fine playing an ogg file
it looks like most modern browsers will play oggs test here -> http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/listen.html
being uncompressed, wav could be a bad format for network performance, i assume/hope the wavs are cached locally by the broswer, ?!
supported, compressed and FOSS makes ogg the perfect choice for me
Mason.
On 2008/11/13, at 9:18 AM, Joe Atzberger wrote:
I don't think I follow you at all, Mason. The page you link doesn't include any <embed> functionality so it doesn't demonstrate browser compatibility for our purposes. You would have to test it inside <embed> on systems that do not have any extra codecs or players installed, and certainly without any browser plug-ins.
--Joe
correct, i was just showing that my 3 standard browsers all play the demo ogg files without a problem but. having a further look... my 3 browsers are playing the ogg files because i had previously installed the XiphQT plug-in for quicktime so, my browsers are standard, but my quicktime is patched for oggs. oops, bad example
I suspect a (small!) .wav file will be the most reliable way to go.
i agree here
Obviously a wav won't be smaller than a corresponding compressed file, but we don't want to require or wait for a 3rd-party browser- embedded player to load.
here is the catch, i suspect even a wav file needs a plug-in to play correctly playing an audio file with plugins disabled cant be done, i think :(
There would only need to be one file, as far as I can tell, since on a real error we can use a javascript alert and get the usual ding.
so, we have 3 options... swf file, used shockwave plugin wav file, uses qt plugin ( or other eg: WMP) ogg file uses qt + XiphQT plugin ( or the great FOSS win/linux/osx VLC player too) or a standard jscript generated beep? most browsers do play wav files by default (with plugins enabled). so wav might indeed be the best choice for cross-browser compatibility ogg + VLC is the best choice for FOSS correctness, and some wiki doco explaining how to install and config VLC for your browser perhaps we go with the quick and dirty .wav fix for now, and add the ogg/swf format support in later, as sysprefs in koha-3.2 ? Mason.
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM, Mason James <mason.loves.sushi@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2008/11/12, at 2:29 PM, Rick Welykochy wrote:
Mason James wrote:
the embedded WAV tag is a simpler/cleaner/open-source solution over the SWF method
I do believe .WAV is a microsoft proprietary format, but let's not split hairs :) We could go for a .OGG file if you want to keep things strictly open, but I doubt MS/InternetExplorer will be supporting that anytime soon.
yep, .ogg would be even better
my safari, FF3 and opera all work fine playing an ogg file
it looks like most modern browsers will play oggs test here -> http://www.xiph.org/vorbis/listen.html
being uncompressed, wav could be a bad format for network performance, i assume/hope the wavs are cached locally by the broswer, ?!
supported, compressed and FOSS makes ogg the perfect choice for me
Mason.
here is the catch, i suspect even a wav file needs a plug-in to play correctly
This is the case in my tests on Windows.
There would only need to be one file, as far as I can tell, since on a real error we can use a javascript alert and get the usual ding.
It would indeed be useful to evaluate whether there are interactions where we should be blocking continued activity until the user has acknowledged an error. For instance: if a hold message comes up during check-in, should a javascript alert be triggered so that the user doesn't continue scanning books?
swf file, used shockwave plugin wav file, uses qt plugin ( or other eg: WMP) ogg file uses qt + XiphQT plugin ( or the great FOSS win/linux/osx VLC player too)
most browsers do play wav files by default (with plugins enabled). so wav might indeed be the best choice for cross-browser compatibility
I don't think we can say both "by default" and "with plugins enabled." My tests indicated that even with plugins, generally speaking, enabled, wav files did not play. Flash is probably the single most commonly-installed and enabled plugin available (it's included with Firefox and Internet Explorer, isn't it?). I realize that it's not FOSS-friendly, but if we want Koha to be *user*-friendly I think Flash is the way to go.
ogg + VLC is the best choice for FOSS correctness, and some wiki doco explaining how to install and config VLC for your browser
I'd hate to go with a solution so convoluted considering the common use of Flash. It's not like we're adding an animated splash screen. It's just a beep. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Owen Leonard wrote:
I'd hate to go with a solution so convoluted considering the common use of Flash. It's not like we're adding an animated splash screen. It's just a beep.
It's Flash-creep cheers rickw -- _________________________________ Rick Welykochy || Praxis Services Tis the dream of each programmer before his life is done, To write three lines of APL and make the damn thing run.
As a quick test I added this HTML to a test page: <OBJECT data="error.wav" WIDTH="1" HEIGHT="1" TYPE="audio/x-wav"></OBJECT> When I loaded the page in Firefox (3.0.3, PC), I was prompted to install a missing plugin (Quicktime). When I loaded the page in Internet Explorer (6, PC and 7, VirtualPC) I was told that Internet Explorer had blocked the site from using ActiveX in an unsafe manner. I'm not offered a way to enable it. Only Opera played the wav file successfully. When I tried it with an OGG file, Firefox again wanted me to install Quicktime. Internet Explorer 6 and 7 prompted me to attempt to play the file by launching the Windows Media Player application (which of course failed to play the file). Opera didn't play the file and didn't produce any errors or warnings. Can anyone share some HTML+media that test more successfully? -- Owen
Yes this would be a great feature - but I have other things that I am more concerned about sponsoring! David Schuster Nicole Engard wrote:
Sharon,
I have heard other Koha users ask for the same thing - but I haven't seen any documentation or an RFC for it.
---
Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard
http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:12 PM, Sharon Moreland <smoreland@nekls.org> wrote:
Hi all, According to a chat I had with Owen on #koha, there has been some discussion of creating sound cues in the staff client with a 'small embedded flash file to play the sound." Our librarians want auditory feedback at both checkin and checkout, so they can interact with the books and patron, rather than looking at the screen after every scan to make sure the transaction was completed successfully. What is the status on this? Is it an enhancement that may be in 3.2?
Sharon Moreland Northeast Kansas Library System NExpress Shared Catalog _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/sound-cues-tp20389874p20433061.html Sent from the Koha - Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
participants (9)
-
Chris Cormack -
David Schuster -
Jesse Weaver -
Joe Atzberger -
Mason James -
Nicole Engard -
Owen Leonard -
Rick Welykochy -
Sharon Moreland