Re: [Koha] Message from PTFS/LibLime
I agree with everything Jim says bellow, but especially the personally hostile attacks. I may not agree with everything all the parties involved have done, but continually attacking people and organizations, esp. when they have just reached out, isn't going to lead to them having better relations with your portion of the community. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. Edward --- On Wed, 9/15/10, Jim Minges <jminges@nekls.org> wrote: From: Jim Minges <jminges@nekls.org> Subject: Re: [Koha] Message from PTFS/LibLime To: koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Date: Wednesday, September 15, 2010, 7:53 PM I welcome John Yokley's statement calling for steps to reduce divisiveness and for creation of a foundation to hold all Koha trademarks and domain names as a very positive step. However his specific proposal is just a starting point for discussion and I agree entirely with the suggestions for an entirely open discussion by all parties of approaches to a foundation or other umbrella Koha organization that will indeed not be dominated by any single company or organization. I encourage John or Patrick Jones to attend KohaCon as an ideal step toward open discussion. However, I am distressed by a few responses that seem personally hostile. We like to speak about the Koha "community." A community is better served through reasonable discussion and exchange of views and I would like to suggest that it will be more productive and professional to seek the high road in our postings to the list. Regards, Jim -- "NEKLS and its member libraries are leaders and innovators in providing exemplary library services." Jim Minges, Director Northeast Kansas Library System 4317 West 6th Street Lawrence, KS 66049 Phone: 785-838-4090 FAX: 785-838-3989 jminges@nekls.org -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Le 16/09/2010 15:34, ed c a écrit :
I agree with everything Jim says bellow, but especially the personally hostile attacks. I may not agree with everything all the parties involved have done, but continually attacking people and organizations, esp. when they have just reached out, isn't going to lead to them having better relations with your portion of the community. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
The question being that we have a long -and not really a honey-moon type- history with LL and PTFS. So oldtimers (like me) are very careful when reading "such good news". Just for everybody information : LibLime[1] has already created a "Koha Software Foundation" in Ohio. It has never been publicly announced, but someone pointed us the link to the registration. Go here : http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/portal/PORTAL_BS.BS_QRY_BUS_INFORMATION1.SHO... search for "Koha" as "business name", clic on "business filling info", and you've got it. [1] the "original" LibLime, not the "PTFS/LibLime" company -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
On 9/16/2010 8:17 AM, Paul Poulain wrote:
Le 16/09/2010 15:34, ed c a écrit :
I agree with everything Jim says bellow, but especially the personally hostile attacks. I may not agree with everything all the parties involved have done, but continually attacking people and organizations, esp. when they have just reached out, isn't going to lead to them having better relations with your portion of the community. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
The question being that we have a long -and not really a honey-moon type- history with LL and PTFS.
So oldtimers (like me) are very careful when reading "such good news".
Just for everybody information : LibLime[1] has already created a "Koha Software Foundation" in Ohio. It has never been publicly announced, but someone pointed us the link to the registration. Go here : http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/portal/PORTAL_BS.BS_QRY_BUS_INFORMATION1.SHO...
search for "Koha" as "business name", clic on "business filling info", and you've got it.
[1] the "original" LibLime, not the "PTFS/LibLime" company -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3137 - Release Date: 09/15/10 12:34:00
Paul, Interesting to ask to create something that has already been created by your attorneys... see link to Sowash's firms areas of expertise.... notice international property and licensing. http://www.martindale.com/Jonathan-Sowash/1420727-lawyer.htm Lee
Just to be clear. This foundation was created by Joshua Ferraro before the acquisition of LibLime by PTFS. 2010/9/16 Lee Phillips <lphillips@buttepubliclibrary.info>
On 9/16/2010 8:17 AM, Paul Poulain wrote:
Le 16/09/2010 15:34, ed c a écrit :
I agree with everything Jim says bellow, but especially the personally hostile attacks. I may not agree with everything all the parties involved have done, but continually attacking people and organizations, esp. when they have just reached out, isn't going to lead to them having better relations with your portion of the community. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
The question being that we have a long -and not really a honey-moon type- history with LL and PTFS.
So oldtimers (like me) are very careful when reading "such good news".
Just for everybody information : LibLime[1] has already created a "Koha Software Foundation" in Ohio. It has never been publicly announced, but someone pointed us the link to the registration. Go here :
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/portal/PORTAL_BS.BS_QRY_BUS_INFORMATION1.SHO...
search for "Koha" as "business name", clic on "business filling info", and you've got it.
[1] the "original" LibLime, not the "PTFS/LibLime" company
-- Paul POULAINhttp://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nzhttp://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3137 - Release Date: 09/15/10 12:34:00
Paul, Interesting to ask to create something that has already been created by your attorneys... see link to Sowash's firms areas of expertise.... notice international property and licensing. http://www.martindale.com/Jonathan-Sowash/1420727-lawyer.htm Lee
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Vicki Teal Lovely Helping our 52 member libraries provide the best possible service to the public. ILS Project Manager South Central Library System Madison, WI vtl@scls.lib.wi.us (608)242-4713 ILS Help Desk (608)242-4720 Twitter: vickiteal Blog: http://scls.typepad.com/link2koha/
2010/9/17 vtl@scls.lib.wi.us <vtl@scls.lib.wi.us>
Just to be clear. This foundation was created by Joshua Ferraro before the acquisition of LibLime by PTFS.
Just to be even clearer, it was created by Liblime's lawyers, Joshua happened to be CEO and one of the owners of Liblime at that time. It wasn't something he did on his own time, it was certainly created by Liblime, not him personally. Chris
On 9/16/2010 11:11 AM, Chris Cormack wrote:
2010/9/17 vtl@scls.lib.wi.us<vtl@scls.lib.wi.us>
Just to be clear. This foundation was created by Joshua Ferraro before the acquisition of LibLime by PTFS.
Just to be even clearer, it was created by Liblime's lawyers, Joshua happened to be CEO and one of the owners of Liblime at that time.
It wasn't something he did on his own time, it was certainly created by Liblime, not him personally.
Chris
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3137 - Release Date: 09/15/10 12:34:00
Please correct me if I am wrong... but wouldn't ptfs know that this 501c3 already exists? LL belongs to ptfs and I would assume the 501c3 is theirs to oversee. I read the articles of incorporation and it is the very basic form and would serve the function of what we have been discussing with ptfs. No principal officers are identified. It hasn't been activated but it will require activity or it will expire. John said he would bear the cost of setting it up--- but it already exists?? Once again communication and transparency is an issue. How can we trust each other if we withhold information?? If the community knew in January that this was a possible route to take to address the trademarks and domains, it would have possibly made for peace among the concerned parties?" Lee
2010/9/16 vtl@scls.lib.wi.us <vtl@scls.lib.wi.us>
Just to be clear. This foundation was created by Joshua Ferraro before the acquisition of LibLime by PTFS.
A point already made by Paul in his email (see below) regarding this. But this is basically irrelevant to the current discussion. PTFS/LibLime owns this entity at the moment regardless, which I think is the point trying to be made. It appears to me that this thread has pretty much exhausted its usefulness. What we really need now are concrete proposals to consider. In light of this, I move that those with serious proposals post them on the wiki and announce the posting on all interested lists so that interested parties can begin the process of due diligence in consideration and research. If this approach is acted upon quickly then there will be some real meat to chew on during KohaCon10. Otherwise, it we will probably just be spinning our wheels. Here are a few additional, personal thoughts: I'd love to see PTFS/LibLime's proposal with all of the details. I'd also like to see a proposal by HLT of what they would like considering that they are the originators of Koha and know best what they had in mind when they released it to the community. Furthermore, I'd like to see a variety of proposals from those in other countries represented in the community. It would also be nice for proposals to include factual legal support for why this new organization should be based in the proposed country. (This would keep us from speculating.) I think that a high level of detail and research given in and to a proposal will help avoid a variety of issues as this unfolds. Kind Regards, Chris
2010/9/16 Lee Phillips <lphillips@buttepubliclibrary.info>
On 9/16/2010 8:17 AM, Paul Poulain wrote:
Le 16/09/2010 15:34, ed c a écrit :
I agree with everything Jim says bellow, but especially the personally hostile attacks. I may not agree with everything all the parties involved have done, but continually attacking people and organizations, esp. when they have just reached out, isn't going to lead to them having better relations with your portion of the community. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
The question being that we have a long -and not really a honey-moon type- history with LL and PTFS.
So oldtimers (like me) are very careful when reading "such good news".
Just for everybody information : LibLime[1] has already created a "Koha Software Foundation" in Ohio. It has never been publicly announced, but someone pointed us the link to the registration. Go here :
http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/portal/PORTAL_BS.BS_QRY_BUS_INFORMATION1.SHO...
search for "Koha" as "business name", clic on "business filling info", and you've got it.
[1] the "original" LibLime, not the "PTFS/LibLime" company
-- Paul POULAINhttp://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nzhttp://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3137 - Release Date: 09/15/10 12:34:00
Paul, Interesting to ask to create something that has already been created by your attorneys... see link to Sowash's firms areas of expertise.... notice international property and licensing. http://www.martindale.com/Jonathan-Sowash/1420727-lawyer.htm Lee
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Vicki Teal Lovely
Helping our 52 member libraries provide the best possible service to the public.
ILS Project Manager South Central Library System Madison, WI vtl@scls.lib.wi.us (608)242-4713 ILS Help Desk (608)242-4720 Twitter: vickiteal Blog: http://scls.typepad.com/link2koha/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Chris Nighswonger wrote:
It appears to me that this thread has pretty much exhausted its usefulness. What we really need now are concrete proposals to consider.
In light of this, I move that those with serious proposals post them on the wiki and announce the posting on all interested lists so that interested parties can begin the process of due diligence in consideration and research. [...]
In light of the above, I apologise for my earlier message which repeated Paul's exasperation. This message and everything since ed c's message of 16/09/2010 15:34 was not added onto the original thread (probably someone's buggy email client?) so I did not see it before. I hope my three steps to PTFS happiness can be put on the right page in the wiki, else I'll add them when I find such a page. The newly-created page http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Software_Foundation doesn't seem the right place for those. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. Webmaster, Debian Developer, Past Koha RM, statistician, former lecturer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha
Chris Nighswonger wrote:
It appears to me that this thread has pretty much exhausted its usefulness. What we really need now are concrete proposals to consider.
In light of this, I move that those with serious proposals post them on the wiki and announce the posting on all interested lists so that interested parties can begin the process of due diligence in consideration and research. [...]
In light of the above, I apologise for my earlier message which repeated Paul's exasperation. This message and everything since ed c's message of 16/09/2010 15:34 was not added onto the original thread (probably someone's buggy email client?) so I did not see it before. I hope my three steps to PTFS happiness can be put on the right page in the wiki, else I'll add them when I find such a page. The newly-created page http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/Koha_Software_Foundation doesn't seem the right place for those. Regards, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. Webmaster, Debian Developer, Past Koha RM, statistician, former lecturer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for Koha work http://www.software.coop/products/koha
I'm sure I'm not the only individual with a curious mind here, so when I saw the original email about all the PTFS name registrations with "community" in the name, I started doing a few simple, quick checks myself, as I'm sure others did. I noticed that ptfskoha.com, ptfskoha.net and ptfskoha.org are all unregistered. For $25 US anyone in the open community could have registered these names, but didn't. Just an observation, nothing else intended or implied. Greg Lawson --------------------------------- On 09/16/2010 09:17 AM, Paul Poulain wrote:
Le 16/09/2010 15:34, ed c a écrit :
I agree with everything Jim says bellow, but especially the personally hostile attacks. I may not agree with everything all the parties involved have done, but continually attacking people and organizations, esp. when they have just reached out, isn't going to lead to them having better relations with your portion of the community. As they say, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
The question being that we have a long -and not really a honey-moon type- history with LL and PTFS.
So oldtimers (like me) are very careful when reading "such good news".
Just for everybody information : LibLime[1] has already created a "Koha Software Foundation" in Ohio. It has never been publicly announced, but someone pointed us the link to the registration. Go here : http://www2.sos.state.oh.us/pls/portal/PORTAL_BS.BS_QRY_BUS_INFORMATION1.SHO...
search for "Koha" as "business name", clic on "business filling info", and you've got it.
[1] the "original" LibLime, not the "PTFS/LibLime" company -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
participants (9)
-
Chris Cormack -
Chris Nighswonger -
ed c -
gsl -
Lee Phillips -
MJ Ray -
MJ Ray -
Paul Poulain -
vtl＠scls.lib.wi.us