Hi! We have encountered an interesting behaviour and are not sure if it's a bug in Koha, in our data, or something else: We have a bibliographic record A where 830$w points to another record B (to the other records' 001 value, to be precise): A: 830$w = 12345 B: 001 = 12345 When Koha renders record A, it produces a link to B, but with a bad param: http://intranet/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl?q=rcn:12345 Changing the param from 'rcn' to 'control-number' finds the correct record: http://intranet/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl?q=control-number:12345 We're using ElasticSearch with default mappings. Looking into those, I see that there are defintions for record-control-number (rcn) and control-number. control-number points to 001, and rcn to various 7/8nn$w fields. Now it makes sense that the search for rcn did not find the value stored in record B.001, and why chaning the search to control-number finds the record. Which leads to my question; * Should we add 001 to the fields mapped to record-control-number? * Should we use a different field than 830w$? We are quite sure that we shouldn't, as the DNB is also using 830$w: https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?query=9783847703389 "Beziehungen: Die Andere Bibliothek ; Bd. 338", linking to (DE-101)015935620: https://portal.dnb.de/opac/opacPresentation?cqlMode=true&reset=true&referrerPosition=0&referrerResultId=%229783847703389%22%26any&query=idn%3D015935620 * Should we change the template to produce a link using a different param? Feels wrong, becuase it does make sense to link to 'rcn' and not to 'control-number'. Also we don't want to mess with the core Koha templates... Any ideas / pointers? Greetings, domm -- #!/usr/bin/perl https://domm.plix.at for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$"-g&&print$_.$/}
Hi Thomas, is this an 830 from a traced series entry? https://git.koha-community.org/Koha-community/Koha/src/commit/a5a3a330cfc7c7... The 830 here is used for a traced series entry in combination with a 490 ind. 1 = 1. In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts. But it could be changed locally of course as you said by just changing the index. If you don't want to change the XSLT file this can also be done quite easily with jQuery in OpacUserJs: $('span.series a').attr('href', function(_,v){ return v.replace(/rcn/g,'Control-number')}); Hope this helps Katrin On 21.12.21 16:07, Thomas Klausner wrote:
Hi!
We have encountered an interesting behaviour and are not sure if it's a bug in Koha, in our data, or something else:
We have a bibliographic record A where 830$w points to another record B (to the other records' 001 value, to be precise):
A: 830$w = 12345 B: 001 = 12345
When Koha renders record A, it produces a link to B, but with a bad param: http://intranet/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl?q=rcn:12345
Changing the param from 'rcn' to 'control-number' finds the correct record: http://intranet/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl?q=control-number:12345
We're using ElasticSearch with default mappings. Looking into those, I see that there are defintions for record-control-number (rcn) and control-number.
control-number points to 001, and rcn to various 7/8nn$w fields. Now it makes sense that the search for rcn did not find the value stored in record B.001, and why chaning the search to control-number finds the record.
Which leads to my question;
* Should we add 001 to the fields mapped to record-control-number?
* Should we use a different field than 830w$? We are quite sure that we shouldn't, as the DNB is also using 830$w: https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?query=9783847703389 "Beziehungen: Die Andere Bibliothek ; Bd. 338", linking to (DE-101)015935620: https://portal.dnb.de/opac/opacPresentation?cqlMode=true&reset=true&referrerPosition=0&referrerResultId=%229783847703389%22%26any&query=idn%3D015935620
* Should we change the template to produce a link using a different param? Feels wrong, becuase it does make sense to link to 'rcn' and not to 'control-number'. Also we don't want to mess with the core Koha templates...
Any ideas / pointers?
Greetings, domm
Hi Katrin, thank you very much for this info! One question remains, however, for me. Referring to (I think) the traced series mentioned in the paragraph before, you explain:
In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts.
Now I am somewhat confused as - however much sense it makes to link horizontally with untraced series - traced series do have a set record to which a link might vertically refer. Still, this isn't what happens in Koha. Was, then, horizontal linking chosen by design for both types of series, traced and untraced, or should there be vertical / upward links in the parts of traced series? Best regards, and a Good New Year to everyone! Anke -- Anke Bruns M.A. (LIS) Arbeitsgruppe "Anwendungs- und Informationssysteme" E-Mail: anke.bruns@gwdg.de --------------------------------------- Achtung! Neue Kontaktdaten! Gesellschaft für wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Göttingen (GWDG) Burckhardtweg 4, 37077 Göttingen, URL: https://gwdg.de Support: Tel.: +49 551 39-30000, URL: https://gwdg.de/support Sekretariat: Tel.: +49 551 39-30001, E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Geschäftsführer: Prof. Dr. Ramin Yahyapour Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Prof. Dr. Norbert Lossau Sitz der Gesellschaft: Göttingen Registergericht: Göttingen, Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 --------------------------------------- Zertifiziert nach ISO 9001 ---------------------------------------
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Koha <koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz> Im Auftrag von Katrin Fischer Gesendet: Samstag, 1. Januar 2022 13:57 An: koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Betreff: Re: [Koha] Linking via 830$w
Hi Thomas,
is this an 830 from a traced series entry?
https://git.koha-community.org/Koha- community/Koha/src/commit/a5a3a330cfc7c7d6c35db13326745dabf8fe0df3 /koha-tmpl/intranet-tmpl/prog/en/xslt/MARC21slimUtils.xsl#L506
The 830 here is used for a traced series entry in combination with a 490 ind. 1 = 1.
In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts.
But it could be changed locally of course as you said by just changing the index. If you don't want to change the XSLT file this can also be done quite easily with jQuery in OpacUserJs:
$('span.series a').attr('href', function(_,v){ return v.replace(/rcn/g,'Control-number')});
Hope this helps
Katrin
On 21.12.21 16:07, Thomas Klausner wrote:
Hi!
We have encountered an interesting behaviour and are not sure if it's a bug in Koha, in our data, or something else:
We have a bibliographic record A where 830$w points to another record B (to the other records' 001 value, to be precise):
A: 830$w = 12345 B: 001 = 12345
When Koha renders record A, it produces a link to B, but with a bad param: http://intranet/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl?q=rcn:12345
Changing the param from 'rcn' to 'control-number' finds the correct record: http://intranet/cgi-bin/koha/catalogue/search.pl?q=control-number:12345
We're using ElasticSearch with default mappings. Looking into those, I see that there are defintions for record-control-number (rcn) and control-number.
control-number points to 001, and rcn to various 7/8nn$w fields. Now it makes sense that the search for rcn did not find the value stored in record B.001, and why chaning the search to control-number finds the record.
Which leads to my question;
* Should we add 001 to the fields mapped to record-control-number?
* Should we use a different field than 830w$? We are quite sure that we shouldn't, as the DNB is also using 830$w: https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?query=9783847703389 "Beziehungen: Die Andere Bibliothek ; Bd. 338", linking to (DE-101)015935620:
https://portal.dnb.de/opac/opacPresentation?cqlMode=true&reset=true&re ferrerPosition=0&referrerResultId=%229783847703389%22%26any&query=i dn%3D015935620
* Should we change the template to produce a link using a different param? Feels wrong, becuase it does make sense to link to 'rcn' and not to 'control-number'. Also we don't want to mess with the core Koha templates...
Any ideas / pointers?
Greetings, domm
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Hi Anke, yes, the original idea was to have the series link behave consistently, independent of it being a traced or untraced series. But as said, the behavior can be quite easily changed with jQuery. Hope this helps Katrin On 02.01.22 14:01, Bruns, Anke wrote:
Hi Katrin,
thank you very much for this info! One question remains, however, for me.
Referring to (I think) the traced series mentioned in the paragraph before, you explain:
In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts. Now I am somewhat confused as - however much sense it makes to link horizontally with untraced series - traced series do have a set record to which a link might vertically refer. Still, this isn't what happens in Koha. Was, then, horizontal linking chosen by design for both types of series, traced and untraced, or should there be vertical / upward links in the parts of traced series?
Best regards, and a Good New Year to everyone!
Anke
Hi! On Sat, Jan 01, 2022 at 01:56:31PM +0100, Katrin Fischer wrote:
is this an 830 from a traced series entry?
Yes.
The 830 here is used for a traced series entry in combination with a 490 ind. 1 = 1.
Not sure what you mean by "490 ind". But the relationship is definitly not 1:1, but n:1 (i.e. we're linking from a child to a parent)
In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts.
I think we are using this 830$w to link not horizontally, but vertically, from a book up to a sort of series ("Reihe"). We're not 100% sure this is correct, so we copied what DNB is doing (see again these links): https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?query=9783847703389 linking via 830$w to https://portal.dnb.de/opac/opacPresentation?cqlMode=true&reset=true&referrerPosition=0&referrerResultId=%229783847703389%22%26any&query=idn%3D015935620
But it could be changed locally of course as you said by just changing the index. If you don't want to change the XSLT file this can also be done quite easily with jQuery in OpacUserJs:
ok, that's another way to correct the param name. We were just not sure if using 'rcn' instead of 'control-number' was a bug in Koha or our MARC. It seems it is neither, so we'll use a workaround to "correct" the param name. Greetings, domm -- #!/usr/bin/perl https://domm.plix.at for(ref bless{},just'another'perl'hacker){s-:+-$"-g&&print$_.$/}
Hi Thomas, when you have a 8xx for a traced series, you usually have a 490 with first indicator = 1 as well. See: https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd490.html https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd830.html The 490 is also present in your sample record from DNB. Hope this helps, Katrin
Not sure what you mean by "490 ind". But the relationship is definitly not 1:1, but n:1 (i.e. we're linking from a child to a parent)
In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts. I think we are using this 830$w to link not horizontally, but vertically, from a book up to a sort of series ("Reihe"). We're not 100% sure this is correct, so we copied what DNB is doing (see again these links):
https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?query=9783847703389 linking via 830$w to https://portal.dnb.de/opac/opacPresentation?cqlMode=true&reset=true&referrerPosition=0&referrerResultId=%229783847703389%22%26any&query=idn%3D015935620
But it could be changed locally of course as you said by just changing the index. If you don't want to change the XSLT file this can also be done quite easily with jQuery in OpacUserJs: ok, that's another way to correct the param name.
We were just not sure if using 'rcn' instead of 'control-number' was a bug in Koha or our MARC. It seems it is neither, so we'll use a workaround to "correct" the param name.
Greetings, domm
Hi Katrin and Thomas, as I also followed this discussion with interest, I would add my 2 ct. as to Koha's behaviour regarding traced and untraced series. Horizontal linking to other parts of a series, traced or untraced, makes perfect sense. Yet I wonder, if it could be modified slightly for traced series. Is it possible to show the series title as first result in the result list, followed by the other titles belonging to the series? I find myself scolling endlessly through result lists trying to find the series title - so it would be quite helpful for me to see it as the first result. Would it be very complicated to configure this, and is it at all possible with Koha? Thanks in advance and best regards Anke -- Anke Bruns M.A. (LIS) Arbeitsgruppe "Anwendungs- und Informationssysteme" E-Mail: anke.bruns@gwdg.de --------------------------------------- Achtung! Neue Kontaktdaten! Gesellschaft für wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Göttingen (GWDG) Burckhardtweg 4, 37077 Göttingen, URL: https://gwdg.de Support: Tel.: +49 551 39-30000, URL: https://gwdg.de/support Sekretariat: Tel.: +49 551 39-30001, E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Geschäftsführer: Prof. Dr. Ramin Yahyapour Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Prof. Dr. Norbert Lossau Sitz der Gesellschaft: Göttingen Registergericht: Göttingen, Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 --------------------------------------- Zertifiziert nach ISO 9001 ---------------------------------------
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Koha <koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz> Im Auftrag von Katrin Fischer Gesendet: Montag, 3. Januar 2022 23:03 An: koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Betreff: Re: [Koha] Linking via 830$w
Hi Thomas,
when you have a 8xx for a traced series, you usually have a 490 with first indicator = 1 as well.
See: https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd490.html https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd830.html
The 490 is also present in your sample record from DNB.
Hope this helps,
Katrin
Not sure what you mean by "490 ind". But the relationship is definitly not 1:1, but n:1 (i.e. we're linking from a child to a parent)
In this case linking horizontally to the other parts of the series instead of linking to the set record was chosen by design, assuming it would make more sense to the user. Especially since untraced series don't have a set record and the link can only link to the parts. I think we are using this 830$w to link not horizontally, but vertically, from a book up to a sort of series ("Reihe"). We're not 100% sure this is correct, so we copied what DNB is doing (see again these links):
https://portal.dnb.de/opac/simpleSearch?query=9783847703389 linking via 830$w to
https://portal.dnb.de/opac/opacPresentation?cqlMode=true&reset=true&referr erPosition=0&referrerResultId=%229783847703389%22%26any&query=idn%3D 015935620
But it could be changed locally of course as you said by just changing the index. If you don't want to change the XSLT file this can also be done quite easily with jQuery in OpacUserJs: ok, that's another way to correct the param name.
We were just not sure if using 'rcn' instead of 'control-number' was a bug in Koha or our MARC. It seems it is neither, so we'll use a workaround to "correct" the param name.
Greetings, domm
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Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi Anke, if the search is done horizontally using the rcn index we are looking for records that have a $w entry matching the number. If we are looking 'upwards' for the set record, we are using the Control-number index to look for a matching 001. It would be possible to combine the 2 searches, looking up both: rcn:xxx OR Control-number:xxx But I am not sure about influencing the sorting. It might just work, for some reasons and depending on sequence of cataloguing etc. Maybe you could give higher weight to the 001 to rank it higher than the $w with Elasticsearch? We could also probably add some kind of sorting to the query. But I haven't experimented with any of this :) Hope this helps, Katrin On 04.01.22 10:45, Bruns, Anke wrote:
Hi Katrin and Thomas,
as I also followed this discussion with interest, I would add my 2 ct. as to Koha's behaviour regarding traced and untraced series. Horizontal linking to other parts of a series, traced or untraced, makes perfect sense. Yet I wonder, if it could be modified slightly for traced series. Is it possible to show the series title as first result in the result list, followed by the other titles belonging to the series? I find myself scolling endlessly through result lists trying to find the series title - so it would be quite helpful for me to see it as the first result.
Would it be very complicated to configure this, and is it at all possible with Koha?
Thanks in advance and best regards Anke
participants (3)
-
Bruns, Anke -
Katrin Fischer -
Thomas Klausner