Plea for help from Horowhenua Library Trust re: Koha
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community. The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight. For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves. So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know. Regards, Jo. -- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
Salvete!
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
I concur. If one doesn't stand up to the schoolyard bully, they simply keep stealing lunch money. Having poor customer service and a vanishing clientele, PTFS are clearly at the stage where they needs resort to domain camping and now trademark on a generic term long utilised in the public interest. May Justice let whichever Court ultimately hears this do so with extreme skepticism.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Let us know where the paypal page is set up for this. Hardly the sort of chicanery that needs happen during a building project. Kia kaha, Brooke
It is so sad to see the gift you gave us all fall into unfriendly hands. Do please let us know when the kitty is opened up for donations. Liz Rea lrea@nekls.org On Nov 21, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
By all means setup a donations page... quick! :-) Kind Regards, Chris 2011/11/21 Liz Rea <lrea@nekls.org>
It is so sad to see the gift you gave us all fall into unfriendly hands.
Do please let us know when the kitty is opened up for donations.
Liz Rea lrea@nekls.org
On Nov 21, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Hi everyone, Thank you so much for your speedy and supportive replies ... I'm feeling a little less despairing now :) I have set up a PayPal account for gathering funds towards mounting a legal challenge. It is a separate account from the HLT operating accounts and I am very happy to give a community representative access to the records etc. So here it is: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=FQ6JH3L48LV5Y And thanks :) Cheers Jo. On 22 November 2011 12:09, Christopher Nighswonger < chris.nighswonger@gmail.com> wrote:
By all means setup a donations page... quick! :-)
Kind Regards, Chris
2011/11/21 Liz Rea <lrea@nekls.org>
It is so sad to see the gift you gave us all fall into unfriendly hands.
Do please let us know when the kitty is opened up for donations.
Liz Rea lrea@nekls.org
On Nov 21, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
Joann, In addition to money, if you think a petition signed by members of the community from around the world will help with your appeal then maybe there is a way we can all e-sign one for you. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this :( Nicole 2011/11/21 Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz>
Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for your speedy and supportive replies ... I'm feeling a little less despairing now :)
I have set up a PayPal account for gathering funds towards mounting a legal challenge. It is a separate account from the HLT operating accounts and I am very happy to give a community representative access to the records etc.
So here it is: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_s-xclick&hosted_button_id=FQ6JH3L48LV5Y
And thanks :)
Cheers Jo.
On 22 November 2011 12:09, Christopher Nighswonger < chris.nighswonger@gmail.com> wrote:
By all means setup a donations page... quick! :-)
Kind Regards, Chris
2011/11/21 Liz Rea <lrea@nekls.org>
It is so sad to see the gift you gave us all fall into unfriendly hands.
Do please let us know when the kitty is opened up for donations.
Liz Rea lrea@nekls.org
On Nov 21, 2011, at 3:31 PM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha-devel mailing list Koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org http://lists.koha-community.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/koha-devel website : http://www.koha-community.org/ git : http://git.koha-community.org/ bugs : http://bugs.koha-community.org/
Good morning Jo I am sending you this afternoon a personal cheque for $50 towards court costs as I am outraged that this can be happening. It a time when people are protesting on Wall Street about corporate greed, it seems there are examples a lot closer to home. If there are practical tasks that need assistance at any stage, please contact me and I will be happy to help. Kind regards, Cath S From: koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz [mailto:koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz] On Behalf Of Joann Ransom Sent: Tuesday, 22 November 2011 10:32 a.m. To: koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org; koha; web4lib@webjunction.org Subject: [Koha] Plea for help from Horowhenua Library Trust re: Koha As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community. The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight. For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves. So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know. Regards, Jo. -- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust. This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any dissemination or use of this information by a person other than the intended recipient is unauthorised and may be illegal. Please note that this communication does not designate an information system for the purposes of the Electronic Transactions Act 2002. <p><b>CAN'T OPEN ATTACHMENTS?</b></p> The Council has upgraded to Microsoft office 2007 suite. This may mean you cannot open attachments if you have older versions of office. <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=941B3470-3AE9-4AEE-8F43-C6BB74CD1466&displaylang=en"> Click here to access Microsoft Office 2007's compatibility website.<a/>
On 2011-11-22, at 10:31 AM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
hi Jo, sad news indeed, expect a cheque in the mail from me i reckon you should consider posting your email to these other NZ tech/library mailing-lists, too NZOSS http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/openchat NZ-LIBS http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nz-libs and haaay look - a mailing-list for -=LAW=- librarians in NZ :) http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/law-lib also, a handy list of library related mailing-lists in NZ http://wiki.lianza.org.nz/index.php/Resources/NZLibEmailDiscussionLists i realize that it's a bit of extra effort for you to sign-up to the lists, etc - but considering how much *wasted* effort this fight is going to cost everyone... its probably well worth it Mason
Perhaps a US based group such as ALA - Am Lib Assn - or SLA - Special Lib Assn - could help? Does anyone have contacts within SLA or ALA? Their members could apply pressure here. Sent from my iPhone! Pardon typos, etc. On Nov 21, 2011, at 8:09 PM, "Mason James" <mtj@kohaaloha.com> wrote:
On 2011-11-22, at 10:31 AM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
hi Jo,
sad news indeed, expect a cheque in the mail from me
i reckon you should consider posting your email to these other NZ tech/library mailing-lists, too
NZOSS http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/openchat
NZ-LIBS http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nz-libs
and haaay look - a mailing-list for -=LAW=- librarians in NZ :) http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/law-lib
also, a handy list of library related mailing-lists in NZ http://wiki.lianza.org.nz/index.php/Resources/NZLibEmailDiscussionLists
i realize that it's a bit of extra effort for you to sign-up to the lists, etc - but considering how much *wasted* effort this fight is going to cost everyone... its probably well worth it
Mason <PGP.sig> _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi David, Any help at all that the American Koha libraries can provide would be gratefully accepted. Cheers Jo. On 22 November 2011 14:33, Hartman, David W. - GBTS Library < David.W.Hartman@disney.com> wrote:
Perhaps a US based group such as ALA - Am Lib Assn - or SLA - Special Lib Assn - could help? Does anyone have contacts within SLA or ALA? Their members could apply pressure here.
Sent from my iPhone! Pardon typos, etc.
On Nov 21, 2011, at 8:09 PM, "Mason James" <mtj@kohaaloha.com> wrote:
On 2011-11-22, at 10:31 AM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of
battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle
to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place
of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
hi Jo,
sad news indeed, expect a cheque in the mail from me
i reckon you should consider posting your email to these other NZ tech/library mailing-lists, too
NZOSS http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/openchat
NZ-LIBS http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nz-libs
and haaay look - a mailing-list for -=LAW=- librarians in NZ :) http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/law-lib
also, a handy list of library related mailing-lists in NZ http://wiki.lianza.org.nz/index.php/Resources/NZLibEmailDiscussionLists
i realize that it's a bit of extra effort for you to sign-up to the
birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community. lists, etc - but considering how much *wasted* effort this fight is going to cost everyone...
its probably well worth it
Mason <PGP.sig> _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
Hi Mason, yup very sad - but I am feeling so much better having shared the load and received such a warm and supportive response from the Koha community. I have posted to those other lists as well so cross fingers between us we can fight this. Cheers Jo. On 22 November 2011 14:08, Mason James <mtj@kohaaloha.com> wrote:
On 2011-11-22, at 10:31 AM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
hi Jo,
sad news indeed, expect a cheque in the mail from me
i reckon you should consider posting your email to these other NZ tech/library mailing-lists, too
NZOSS http://lists.nzoss.org.nz/mailman/listinfo/openchat
NZ-LIBS http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nz-libs
and haaay look - a mailing-list for -=LAW=- librarians in NZ :) http://lists.vuw.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/law-lib
also, a handy list of library related mailing-lists in NZ http://wiki.lianza.org.nz/index.php/Resources/NZLibEmailDiscussionLists
i realize that it's a bit of extra effort for you to sign-up to the lists, etc - but considering how much *wasted* effort this fight is going to cost everyone... its probably well worth it
Mason
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
2011/11/22 Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz>
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________
Joann, This is preposterous behavior on the part of a greedy company. I strongly denounce this approval of Koha trademark in NZ. If there is any way this can reach the Trademark approving authority in NZ, I would like to appeal to them to reconsider the trademark approval. Koha is a open source software from birth. The rightful owners of Koha trademark should be the Koha community and the community has reposed the responsibility of holding such ownership to HLT. So HLT doubly qualifies for holding the Trademarks firstly as the place that gave birth to Koha ( & gave it to the world ) and secondly as stated above, as the body chosen by the Koha community to hold Koha related Trademarks and legal rights. We stand firmly behind HLT and will do all in our power to help. I have already sent a small donation through paypal towards the Koha Trademark fund. I urge all community members (and even others interested in open source software) to donate as much as they can. If you think a letter campaign to the Trademark approving authority in NZ might help in this battle, lets organize one. Please let us know in what other ways we can help. Regards, Koustubha Kale Anant Corporation Contact Details : Address : 103, Armaan Residency, R. W Sawant Road, Nr. Golden Dyes Naka, Thane (w), Maharashtra, India, Pin : 400601. TeleFax : +91-22-21720108, +91-22-21720109 Mobile : +919820715876 Website : http://www.anantcorp.com Blog : http://www.anantcorp.com/blog/?author=2
As much as I hate to say it, I wonder if it isn't time to give up this fight. The truth is that the law isn't really on the Koha community's side on this issue because of the sale of the domain to Liblime way back when. That sale really makes the difference as to whether we have any legal footing on this issue. It is clear that the moral issue is meaningless so hoping for others to just do the right thing isn't going to happen. There has already been plenty of outrage expressed by the Koha community and clearly it hasn't made a difference. In the interest of keeping the community on track, I strongly urge everyone to reconsider taking up this legal battle and focusing again on Koha, the name, instead of Koha, the software and, more important, Koha, the community. We lost over a year in wrangling with Liblime/PTFS and I think the product suffered for it, as did the community. Could we possibly find another wonderful word from the birthplace of Koha and make a fresh start? I'm sure the same creative minds that came up with Koha could find another word that is appropriate for this new stage of life and we could just start fresh. Let Liblime take the word, they will never take the community. And the confusion between the true Koha and Liblime Koha hurts the community a whole lot more than it hurts Liblime. I say this with the community interests at heart. I really believe it would be best to walk away from this fight. Disengage and focus on what is most important. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lori Bowen Ayre // Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group Oversight Board & Communications Committee / Evergreen (707) 763-6869 // Lori.Ayre@galecia.com <Lori.Ayre@galecia.com>Specializing in open source ILS solutions, RFID, filtering, workflow optimization, and materials handling =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2011/11/21 Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz>
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
2011/11/22 Lori Bowen Ayre <lori.ayre@galecia.com>:
The truth is that the law isn't really on the Koha community's side on this issue because of the sale of the domain to Liblime way back when.
Putting aside the issue of whether we should fight this fight or not, the sale of the domain to Liblime has nothing to do with whether PTFS should own a trademark on the term Koha in New Zealand. Owning a domain name does not give you a trademark on that term. We were naive to let Liblime get a US trademark on Koha in the first place. We should not repeat that error. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Salvete!
2011/11/22 Lori Bowen Ayre <lori.ayre@galecia.com>:
The truth is that the law isn't really on the Koha community's side on this issue because of the sale of the domain to Liblime way back when.
I think it's premature to say that. To my knowledge, this hasn't actually been navigated in court yet. Until our appeals are exhausted, I don't think we should give up. Doing so sends a message that it's okay for a large corporation to shove the public interest about. As far as what is in the name is concerned, it chafes me to see a native term, in especial that one, abused. We've already tried the way of the two row wampum. We've already said we'll be over here, you stay over there, and we'll mutually mind our own business. This has not stopped the personal attacks or the corporate ones. If it is a fight they want, then it is a fight they'll get.
Putting aside the issue of whether we should fight this fight or not, the sale of the domain to Liblime has nothing to do with whether PTFS should own a trademark on the term Koha in New Zealand. Owning a domain name does not give you a trademark on that term.
*nod* Even at the stage of owning a trademark, one must defend that trademark to retain it. I really do believe that the horse left the stall quite a while back. I'd love to see that tested in court.
We were naive to let Liblime get a US trademark on Koha in the first place. We should not repeat that error.
I agree, and certainly not in the birthplace of Koha. Cheers, Brooke
On 22/11/2011 14:53, Lori Bowen Ayre wrote:
Could we possibly find another wonderful word from the birthplace of Koha and make a fresh start? I'm sure the same creative minds that came up with Koha could find another word that is appropriate for this new stage of life and we could just start fresh. Let Liblime take the word, they will never take the community. And the confusion between the true Koha and Liblime Koha hurts the community a whole lot more than it hurts Liblime.
How about "Utu" -- David Allen London
Lori Bowen Ayre <lori.ayre@galecia.com>
I say this with the community interests at heart. I really believe it would be best to walk away from this fight. Disengage and focus on what is most important.
And when should we stop running away and stand our ground, exactly? Before private corporations use trademarks to limit all languages? How weak should we let their claims be before we dispute them? We should take care of this beautiful Koha, defend this lovely gift from Horowhenua, so far as we are reasonably able. As the original commissioner, I think HLT was a joint first user of the mark in NZ and Koha has been in continuous use in their libraries, so it's absurd to try to deny them use of it, isn't it? It was a tactical error that the .org domain went to the supply side of that original relationship and it was a tactical error to let Liblime register a dodgy US trademark despite other earlier US Koha developers. Nevertheless, HLT still used the mark as part of delivering their library services in Horowhenua for all this time. Why should US corporations get away with such outrageous expropriation? If there was no HLT, there would probably have been no Koha LMS, so there would have been no business for Liblime to buy and thus no Liblime for PTFS to buy! I'll put this to the co-op's next meeting, but my view is clear: Occupy Koha! -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op. Webmaster, Debian Developer, Past Koha RM, statistician, former lecturer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire for various work through http://www.software.coop/
2011/11/22 Lori Bowen Ayre <lori.ayre@galecia.com>
There has already been plenty of outrage expressed by the Koha community and clearly it hasn't made a difference.
Oh, I don't know about that. We investigated Koha and Evergreen for a year and recently decided to go with community Koha using ByWater Solutions as a vendor rather than LibLime largely because of LibLime's position within (or rather, without) the community. That, and the fact its product has basically become a proprietary system with all the weaknesses and pitfalls of such systems. While investigating, we did visit a couple of LibLime clients who are jumping ship as soon as they are legally able, for many of the same reasons we eschewed it from the git-go. So, I think it has, in fact, made a difference. People who care do pay attention. --Jim Maroon -- ================================================== "The man, who, by his own and his family's labour, can provide a sufficiency of food and raiment and a comfortable dwelling place, is not a poor man." --William Cobbett, *Cottage Economy*, 1826.
2011/11/24 Buster <storypage@gmail.com>
2011/11/22 Lori Bowen Ayre <lori.ayre@galecia.com>
There has already been plenty of outrage expressed by the Koha community and clearly it hasn't made a difference.
Oh, I don't know about that. We investigated Koha and Evergreen for a year and recently decided to go with community Koha using ByWater Solutions as a vendor rather than LibLime largely because of LibLime's position within (or rather, without) the community. That, and the fact its product has basically become a proprietary system with all the weaknesses and pitfalls of such systems. While investigating, we did visit a couple of LibLime clients who are jumping ship as soon as they are legally able, for many of the same reasons we eschewed it from the git-go.
So, I think it has, in fact, made a difference. People who care do pay attention.
Some very interesting news.
http://diligentroom.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/the-exemplar-of-stupid-koha-vs-...
From Liblime: "Here’s PTFS/LibLime’s press release about the matter: http://www.liblime.com/ptfsliblime-granted-provisional-use-of-koha-trademark...
The TL;DR is: this was inherited—by surprise—from the previous owners. We don’t know their intentions then, but we know ours now. We’ll hand the NZ trademark off to a non-profit (including HLT) who agrees to continue our practice of protecting non-exclusive use of the name." Which sounds great to me, HLT makes that promise (as they are the community elected body to hold community property and a registered non profit Trust) and PTFS/Liblime can sign over the application. This could all be resolved in a couple of days time. I really hope this is true and the application is signed over to HLT as soon as possible so we can put this all behind us. Chris
Made front page of the Manawatu Evening Standard, today. ________________________________ From: Chris Cormack <chris@bigballofwax.co.nz> To: Buster <storypage@gmail.com> Cc: koha <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz>; web4lib@webjunction.org; koha-devel@lists.koha-community.org Sent: Saturday, 26 November 2011 9:03 AM Subject: Re: [Koha] Plea for help from Horowhenua Library Trust re: Koha An update on the situation http://koha-community.org/update-2/ Chris _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Le 21/11/2011 22:31, Joann Ransom a écrit :
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. <snip>
Hi Jo, I agree with all what has been said, and I'd like to rise 3 points: == point 1 == 1 do you have a lawyer already ? 2 how much would it cost to build/write the objection? 3 what are our chances to win ? If #1 is yes, you should/could have an answer to #2 and #3 (for free). If answer to #2 is 100k NZD and to #3 is 5% chances, then => change the name If answer to #2 is 1k NZD and to #3 is 75%, then => fight ! (and you'll get the money) == point 2 == I tend to be very very very sad when thinking to changing the name. OTOH, in the greek conference, someone made a presentation about tools for small libraries, and she presented ... Koha ... with the "LibLime KOHA" logo :((( So, maybe changing the name will remove the confusion, and will be worth for all of the community ! == point 3 == I'm sure Catalyst have lawyers and Don will throw his hat in the game. In fact, Catalyst is probably the first one that could/would be annoyed by this trademark... -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
Hi Paul and all, In reply to Paul's mention of Catalyst below - yes Don Christie (Catalyst Director) is planning to contribute - we are keeping in touch with the wider Koha community and planning the best way to use our resources to help. I confess I've been following your messages quietly without introducing myself so far :) I'm Kathryn, the fairly new Project Manager for the Koha team at Catalyst in NZ. This is my first post to this list. It's been awesome to read all your messages over the past day. Kathryn
== point 3 == I'm sure Catalyst have lawyers and Don will throw his hat in the game. In fact, Catalyst is probably the first one that could/would be annoyed by this trademark...
Welcome to the community! One of the great things about the community--possibly the greatest--is how supportive and welcoming it is. Speaking as an American business owner, I hope that you do not take this as indicative of the "American Way." As most of you probably know, I am in the business of preserving cultural heritage, not co-opting it. About a year ago I shared my feelings on the importance of openness and community, and I still stand by what I said. Koha is a gift from Horowhenua Library Trust, and I, for one, am very grateful for it. I am very sorry that not everyone recognizes that, and that this absurd trademark application is an issue at all. Regards, Jared On Nov 22, 2011 9:56 PM, "Kathryn Tyree" <kathryn@catalyst.net.nz> wrote:
Hi Paul and all,
In reply to Paul's mention of Catalyst below - yes Don Christie (Catalyst Director) is planning to contribute - we are keeping in touch with the wider Koha community and planning the best way to use our resources to help.
I confess I've been following your messages quietly without introducing myself so far :) I'm Kathryn, the fairly new Project Manager for the Koha team at Catalyst in NZ. This is my first post to this list.
It's been awesome to read all your messages over the past day.
Kathryn
== point 3 == I'm sure Catalyst have lawyers and Don will throw his hat in the game. In fact, Catalyst is probably the first one that could/would be annoyed by this trademark...
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
I think it might be interesting to raise this issue with the free press. Some coverage of the issue in the right places, especially if it might go viral, could be very powerful. If there is a good writer familiar with the NZ issues involved that could write up some bullet points/talking points and send them to the various magazines, /. and popular bloggers, that would be a good tactical move. -- Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 On 11/21/2011 03:31 PM, Joann Ransom wrote:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
Op 23-11-11 07:44, Robin Sheat schreef:
I got a text from my mother saying that it was on National Radio this morning.
And also on the front page of Stuff. The headline is wrong, but the content is right: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6016492/Small-library-fights-US-corporation-... Robin
Op 23-11-11 07:44, Robin Sheat schreef:
Op 23-11-11 05:05, G. Laws schreef:
I think it might be interesting to raise this issue with the free press.
I got a text from my mother saying that it was on National Radio this morning.
Scroll down to 7.25 here: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport and you can get it in glorious Ogg Vorbis. (this link probably won't be correct tomorrow, so here's a direct one: http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20111123-0725-horowhenua_library_astoni... Robin.
This may be a silly question, but have you considered contacting the Electronic Frontier Foundation to ask for assistance? https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance 2011/11/21 Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz>:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Jason Sherman Systems Librarian University of Science and Arts of Oklahoma 405.574.1340
I don't think that is silly at all. You should definitely contact the EFF, if you haven't already, and also the Free Software Foundation <http://www.fsf.org/>. You might also want to talk to the Software Freedom Law Center <http://www.softwarefreedom.org/>. While they might not be able to help you directly, they might be able to give you some advice and/or a referral. Thanks, Cary On Tue, Nov 22, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Jason Sherman <jsherman@usao.edu> wrote:
This may be a silly question, but have you considered contacting the Electronic Frontier Foundation to ask for assistance?
https://www.eff.org/pages/legal-assistance
2011/11/21 Joann Ransom <jransom@library.org.nz>:
As I am sure most of you are aware, Horowhenua Library Trust is the birth place of Koha and the longest serving member of the Koha community. Back in 1999 when we were working on Koha, the idea that 12 years later we would be having to write an email like this never crossed our minds. It is with tremendous sadness that we must write this plea for help to you, the other members of the Koha community.
The situation we find ourselves in, is that after over a year of battling against it, PTFS/Liblime have managed to have their application for a Trademark on Koha in New Zealand accepted. We now have 3 months to object, but to do so involves lawyers and money. We are a small semi rural Library in New Zealand and have no cash spare in our operational budget to afford this, but we do feel it is something we must fight.
For the library that invented Koha to now have to have a legal battle to prevent a US company trademarking the word in NZ seems bizarre, but it is at this point that we find ourselves.
So, we ask you, the users and developers of Koha, from the birth place of Koha, please if you can help in anyway, let us know.
Regards,
Jo.
-- Joann Ransom RLIANZA Head of Libraries, Horowhenua Library Trust.
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Jason Sherman Systems Librarian University of Science and Arts of Oklahoma 405.574.1340 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Cary Gordon The Cherry Hill Company http://chillco.com
participants (23)
-
Buster -
BWS Johnson -
Cary Gordon -
Cath Sheard -
Chris Cormack -
Christopher Nighswonger -
David Allen -
G. Laws -
Hartman, David W. - GBTS Library -
Jared Camins-Esakov -
Jason Sherman -
Joann Ransom -
Kathryn Tyree -
Koustubha Kale -
Liz Rea -
Lori Bowen Ayre -
Mason James -
MJ Ray -
Nicole Engard -
Owen Leonard -
Paul Poulain -
Robin Sheat -
Waylon Robertson