At 12:03 PM 1/29/2016 -0500, Owen Leonard wrote:
Thanks Chris, but... it is the latest version of Opera (34, both .deb and win)
When I check Opera 34 on Windows I see no SSL error.
Solved -- or at least I've maybe got to the bottom of this. I now have Opera running on Ubuntu, Debian and Mint desktops, by forcing the following certs: * ISRG Root X1 * Let's Encrypt Authority X1 (IdenTrust cross-signed) * Let's Encrypt Authority X2 (IdenTrust cross-signed) * DST Root CA X3 It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP (we still have three work spaces, unfortunately) except with Firefox (so Opera, Chrome and IE don't work.) This is apparently a Microsoft problem, as the Let's Encrypt "countersigner" needs NameConstraints which MS have not backported to XP and Let's Encrypt apparently can't do without it. Full details at <https://community.letsencrypt.org/t/help-needed-windows-xp-support/8756> Maybe it's not too important -- WinXP only has about 11% market penetration according to <https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0> and Opera is not a prevalent browser -- we just like it for it's speed and clean layout, but our users/cataloguers rarely need the Koha wiki. So I can live with it until we can convert the boxes to Linux. Thanks for the responses -- Paul
Hi, Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP
No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids. Wikipedia[1] says
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and entered the Extended Support phase; […] Extended support ended on April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10 years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April 8, no more security patches or support information are provided for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created, and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid "Custom Support" plan
I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid "Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan, it's not really their problem either. If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good. -- Mirko [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support
Mirko, Please re-read what I wrote (and you cut out): a) Win XP has a market penetration of one in every nine or ten computers world wide; I might guess that this percentage is higher outside the "Western world" where libraries are perhaps just as important, or more so, than in "developed countries." Nothing to do with pyramids, but whether or not the Koha Wiki is important to them, I'll leave up to you... b) I wrote very clearly that I was updating our old WinXP boxes to Linux -- I've only got three out of twenty-seven to go :=} The bottom line is that until a few days ago, all our workstations could access the Koha Wiki; now three of them can't. No problem, my email was informational only. As to paying Microsoft's licensing fees, we're a charity and prefer spending our budget on outreach to school children, rather than financing Redmond. Best -- Paul At 08:58 PM 1/30/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
Hi,
Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP
No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.
Wikipedia[1] says
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and entered the Extended Support phase; [ ] Extended support ended on April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10 years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April 8, no more security patches or support information are provided for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created, and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid "Custom Support" plan
I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid "Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan, it's not really their problem either.
If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.
-- Mirko
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koh
--- Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation, research and education through the written word and the arts. <http://NavalMarineArchive.com> and <http://UltraMarine.ca>
Paul, Paul A schrieb am 31.01.2016
a) Win XP has a market penetration of one in every nine or ten computers world wide;
According to w3cschools.com, Windows XP has a marketshare of 2,3% (December 2015)[1]
I might guess that this percentage is higher outside the "Western world" where libraries are perhaps just as important, or more so, than in "developed countries."
Citation needed.
Nothing to do with pyramids, but whether or not the Koha Wiki is important to them, I'll leave up to you...
My guess is that this percentage is higher in western administrations that rather pay extra support fees than get their act together and migrate to a recent operating system, because they rely on custom software developed around the time of pyramids that requires XP. I live in Berlin. 28.902 of 70.223 Computers the Senate of Berlin is responsible for were runnuning Windows XP end of October 2014. They paid 300.000€ to get extra support from Microsoft until April 2015.[2] At that point the data security officer demanded 10.000s of Computers running XP to be shut down immediately. Microsoft agreed to renew the support contract once again. In this case the information went public. I really don't want to know how many cases like that we have in Germany alone. I don't know what the status is today, but I have guess. Fun fact: There were also 320 Servers running Windows 2003 Server mid-2015, the extended support contract was supposed to cost about a million Euro.[3]
As to paying Microsoft's licensing fees, we're a charity and prefer spending our budget on outreach to school children, rather than financing Redmond.
Which means you are running a completely unsupported operating system on some of your computers. That's scary. Good to hear you plan to end that. -- Mirko [1] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp [2] http://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/starweb/adis/citat/VT/17/SchrAnfr/s17-1565... (German) [3] http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Windows-Server-2003-Berliner-Senat-vo... (German)
At 08:58 PM 1/30/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
Hi,
Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP
No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.
Wikipedia[1] says
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and entered the Extended Support phase; […] Extended support ended on April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10 years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April 8, no more security patches or support information are provided for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created, and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid "Custom Support" plan
I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid "Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan, it's not really their problem either.
If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.
-- Mirko
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koh
--- Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation, research and education through the written word and the arts. <http://NavalMarineArchive.com> and <http://UltraMarine.ca>
At 07:04 AM 2/2/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
Paul, Paul A schrieb am 31.01.2016
a) Win XP has a market penetration of one in every nine or ten computers world wide; According to w3cschools.com, Windows XP has a marketshare of 2,3% (December 2015)[1]
W3 is "collected from W3Schools' log-files" (perhaps statistically a specialized and/or minor subset of the WWW?) and the source I quoted in my first email <https://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10&qpcustomd=0> gives a worldwide market share of 11.42% (January 2016) -- their methodology available on their website. StatCounter <http://gs.statcounter.com/#desktop-os-ww-monthly-201601-201601-bar> is a little lower (but still 3.5 times higher than W3) -- which is why I wrote "one in every nine or ten".
I might guess that this percentage is higher outside the "Western world" where libraries are perhaps just as important, or more so, than in "developed countries."
Citation needed.
"For example, in North America usage of Windows XP has dropped to 4.7%, but in Asia it is still 13.6% (even higher in China, at 30%; and India)" <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems> -- you can also pick by area/country on the StatCounter URL I gave above. I have no axe to grind -- except that I see Koha as (a) an internal management tool, and (b) as the _public_, _worldwide_ interface to our holdings, this latter being very important to our goals. Hence my interest in this type of statistics. But we might be wandering a bit off-topic for this list... Best -- Paul
Nothing to do with pyramids, but whether or not the Koha Wiki is important to them, I'll leave up to you...
My guess is that this percentage is higher in western administrations that rather pay extra support fees than get their act together and migrate to a recent operating system, because they rely on custom software developed around the time of pyramids that requires XP.
I live in Berlin. 28.902 of 70.223 Computers the Senate of Berlin is responsible for were runnuning Windows XP end of October 2014. They paid 300.000 to get extra support from Microsoft until April 2015.[2] At that point the data security officer demanded 10.000s of Computers running XP to be shut down immediately. Microsoft agreed to renew the support contract once again.
In this case the information went public. I really don't want to know how many cases like that we have in Germany alone. I don't know what the status is today, but I have guess.
Fun fact: There were also 320 Servers running Windows 2003 Server mid-2015, the extended support contract was supposed to cost about a million Euro.[3]
As to paying Microsoft's licensing fees, we're a charity and prefer spending our budget on outreach to school children, rather than financing Redmond.
Which means you are running a completely unsupported operating system on some of your computers. That's scary. Good to hear you plan to end that.
-- Mirko
[1] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp [2] http://pardok.parlament-berlin.de/starweb/adis/citat/VT/17/SchrAnfr/s17-1565... (German) [3] http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Windows-Server-2003-Berliner-Senat-vo... (German)
At 08:58 PM 1/30/2016 +0100, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
Hi,
Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP
No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids.
Wikipedia[1] says
On April 14, 2009, Windows XP exited mainstream support and entered the Extended Support phase; [ ] Extended support endded on April 8, 2014, over 12 years since the release of XP; normally Microsoft products have a support life cycle of only 10 years.[118] Beyond the final security updates released on April 8, no more security patches or support information are provided for XP free-of-charge; "critical patches" will still be created, and made available only to customers subscribing to a paid "Custom Support" plan
I don't know how much money you would have to put into the paid "Custom Plan" for something like this to happen, but since the rest of the world does not have a paid "Support Win XP forever" plan, it's not really their problem either.
If XP still works for you, cool. If it does not, well, there have been a few new versions now to choose an upgrade from. Or switch to GNU/Linux, I hear it's quite good.
-- Mirko
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_XP#End_of_support
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koh
--- Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation, research and education through the written word and the arts. <http://NavalMarineArchive.com> and <http://UltraMarine.ca>
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koh
--- Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation, research and education through the written word and the arts. <http://NavalMarineArchive.com> and <http://UltraMarine.ca>
On 16-01-31 8:58 am, Mirko Tietgen wrote:
Hi,
Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids. Hi,
I can access the Koha wiki successfully in Win-XP, using Opera or Firefox So, I think there is no problem here https://imgur.com/tIyRntt
Firefox and Opera use their own trusted certificate store, ignoring the operating system. NO ONE should be using XP any more, and if you are moving to a new OS needs to be a priority. XP may *seem* to work just fine for you, but it no longer gets any system patches... even critical security updates. Continuing to use XP is like trying to sail a leaky boat and expecting not to get wet. If you can't afford to replace the system, you'll be better off doing without. Sent from my iPad
On Jan 30, 2016, at 10:39 PM, Mason James <mtj@kohaaloha.com> wrote:
On 16-01-31 8:58 am, Mirko Tietgen wrote: Hi,
Paul A schrieb am 30.01.2016
It appears that the Koha/Let's encrypt certificate will never work on WinXP No, it won't. XP was dead before LE was born. It will probably not work for other ancient stuff, like pyramids. Hi,
I can access the Koha wiki successfully in Win-XP, using Opera or Firefox So, I think there is no problem here
https://imgur.com/tIyRntt _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
On 16-01-31 5:58 pm, Joel Coehoorn wrote:
Firefox and Opera use their own trusted certificate store, ignoring the operating system.
Aah, thanks for explaining that. I was curious as to *why* it was working?! :p
NO ONE should be using XP any more, and if you are moving to a new OS needs to be a priority. XP may *seem* to work just fine for you, but it no longer gets any system patches... even critical security updates. Continuing to use XP is like trying to sail a leaky boat and expecting not to get wet. If you can't afford to replace the system, you'll be better off doing without.
yes, agreed
participants (4)
-
Joel Coehoorn -
Mason James -
Mirko Tietgen -
Paul A