DBMS auto increment fix not working
Hi In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14. When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss. You should not ignore this warning. The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1. To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix According to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBMS_auto_increment_fix the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists. In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following: {UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907 I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15. Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it? Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch
Hi Michael, the fix did prevent the problem from occurring on older versions, but it doesn't fix the data. Could it be the bad data was there before, maybe from using an older DBMS version? The simplest fix is to delete the entries in the old_ and deleted_ tables with the doubled up IDs and then restart your DBMS. Hope this helps, Katrin On 25.08.22 11:03, Michael Kuhn wrote:
Hi
In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14.
When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying
Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss.
You should not ignore this warning.
The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1.
To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix
According to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBMS_auto_increment_fix the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists.
In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following:
{UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907
I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15.
Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it?
Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch _______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi Katrin You wrote:
the fix did prevent the problem from occurring on older versions, but it doesn't fix the data.
Could it be the bad data was there before, maybe from using an older DBMS version?
The simplest fix is to delete the entries in the old_ and deleted_ tables with the doubled up IDs and then restart your DBMS.
Yes, I know the fix won't fix the data. So I usually do what you suggested. But I had expected the fix to prevent the problem from occurring - only the "auto_increment fix" does NOT prevent the problem in MariaDB 10.5.51. Instead from time to time new deletions (not all) produce the same error again. That's why I wrote I'm not sure if the underlying problem is the same as the one that was fixed by the "auto_increment fix". Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch Am 25.08.22 um 11:03 schrieb Michael Kuhn:
Hi
In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14.
When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying
Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss.
You should not ignore this warning.
The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1.
To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix
According to https://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/DBMS_auto_increment_fix the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists.
In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following:
{UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907
I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15.
Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it?
Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch
Hi Michael, not sure then :( Maybe someone else has an idea? Katrin On 25.08.22 18:39, Michael Kuhn wrote:
Hi Katrin
You wrote:
the fix did prevent the problem from occurring on older versions, but it doesn't fix the data.
Could it be the bad data was there before, maybe from using an older DBMS version?
The simplest fix is to delete the entries in the old_ and deleted_ tables with the doubled up IDs and then restart your DBMS.
Yes, I know the fix won't fix the data. So I usually do what you suggested.
But I had expected the fix to prevent the problem from occurring - only the "auto_increment fix" does NOT prevent the problem in MariaDB 10.5.51. Instead from time to time new deletions (not all) produce the same error again.
That's why I wrote I'm not sure if the underlying problem is the same as the one that was fixed by the "auto_increment fix".
Best wishes: Michael
Hi, The fact that it will no longer happen under MariaDB 10.5.15 does not guarantee that you still suffer the consequences of older occurrences. The wiki promises a script but it never made it probably. But the easiest 'solution' is deleting the records in the deleted_* tables that have a corresponding id in the normal tables. After that verify that your autoincrement pointers on the normal tables are higher than the maximum id values in the deleted tables. If they would not be, you may bump into the issue again one day. Marcel ________________________________ Van: Koha <koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz> namens Michael Kuhn <mik@adminkuhn.ch> Verzonden: donderdag 25 augustus 2022 11:03 Aan: Koha <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> Onderwerp: [Koha] DBMS auto increment fix not working Hi In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14. When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss. You should not ignore this warning. The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1. To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix According to https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.koha-... the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists. In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following: {UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907 I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15. Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it? Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adminku... _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkoha-commun... Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.kati...
Hi Marcel Yesterday you wrote:
The fact that it will no longer happen under MariaDB 10.5.15 does not guarantee that you still suffer the consequences of older occurrences. The wiki promises a script but it never made it probably.
But the easiest 'solution' is deleting the records in the deleted_* tables that have a corresponding id in the normal tables.
We have done this before and I did this again today. At the moment there are no biblionumbers existing in table "deletedbiblio" that also exist in table "biblio". Menu "About Koha > System information" does not show errors anymore.
After that verify that your autoincrement pointers on the normal tables are higher than the maximum id values in the deleted tables. If they would not be, you may bump into the issue again one day.
I have checked the currentauto_increment values for all tables, the values in the normal tables are always higher than the ones in the respective deleted tables: 147200 - biblio 146933 - deletedbiblio 147200 - biblio_metadata 68588 - deletedbiblio_metadata 147200 - biblioitems NULL - deletedbiblioitems 73229 - items NULL - deleteditems So if I understand right with this setup when using MariaDB 10.5.15 the problem should no more happen. Unfortunately I'm quite sure it will happen again anyway (as before). I will then write to the list again. Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch Am 30.08.22 um 13:17 schrieb Marcel de Rooy:
Hi,
The fact that it will no longer happen under MariaDB 10.5.15 does not guarantee that you still suffer the consequences of older occurrences. The wiki promises a script but it never made it probably. But the easiest 'solution' is deleting the records in the deleted_* tables that have a corresponding id in the normal tables. After that verify that your autoincrement pointers on the normal tables are higher than the maximum id values in the deleted tables. If they would not be, you may bump into the issue again one day.
Marcel
________________________________ Van: Koha <koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz> namens Michael Kuhn <mik@adminkuhn.ch> Verzonden: donderdag 25 augustus 2022 11:03 Aan: Koha <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> Onderwerp: [Koha] DBMS auto increment fix not working
Hi
In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14.
When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying
Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss.
You should not ignore this warning.
The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1.
To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix
According to https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.koha-... the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists.
In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following:
{UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907
I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15.
Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it?
Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adminku... _______________________________________________
Koha mailing list https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkoha-commun... Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.kati... _______________________________________________
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Hi Marcel Unfortunately it seems like the mailing list is not accepting my original answer to your e-mail (I tried twice). Instead after some days I received an e-mail with the subject "Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender", telling me The mail system <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz>: connect to lists.katipo.co.nz[202.70.130.220]:25: Connection refused I don't even know if this e-mail is getting through. There's probably something wrong with the mailing list when not accepting answers. Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch Am 30.08.22 um 13:17 schrieb Marcel de Rooy:
Hi,
The fact that it will no longer happen under MariaDB 10.5.15 does not guarantee that you still suffer the consequences of older occurrences. The wiki promises a script but it never made it probably. But the easiest 'solution' is deleting the records in the deleted_* tables that have a corresponding id in the normal tables. After that verify that your autoincrement pointers on the normal tables are higher than the maximum id values in the deleted tables. If they would not be, you may bump into the issue again one day.
Marcel
________________________________ Van: Koha <koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz> namens Michael Kuhn <mik@adminkuhn.ch> Verzonden: donderdag 25 augustus 2022 11:03 Aan: Koha <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> Onderwerp: [Koha] DBMS auto increment fix not working
Hi
In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14.
When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying
Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss.
You should not ignore this warning.
The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1.
To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix
According to https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.koha-... the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists.
In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following:
{UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907
I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15.
Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it?
Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adminku... _______________________________________________
Koha mailing list https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkoha-commun... Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.kati... _______________________________________________
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi Marcel Yesterday you wrote:
The fact that it will no longer happen under MariaDB 10.5.15 does not guarantee that you still suffer the consequences of older occurrences. The wiki promises a script but it never made it probably.
But the easiest 'solution' is deleting the records in the deleted_* tables that have a corresponding id in the normal tables.
We have done this before and I did this again today. At the moment there are no biblionumbers existing in table "deletedbiblio" that also exist in table "biblio". Menu "About Koha > System information" does not show errors anymore.
After that verify that your autoincrement pointers on the normal tables are higher than the maximum id values in the deleted tables. If they would not be, you may bump into the issue again one day.
I have checked the currentauto_increment values for all tables, the values in the normal tables are always higher than the ones in the respective deleted tables: 147200 - biblio 146933 - deletedbiblio 147200 - biblio_metadata 68588 - deletedbiblio_metadata 147200 - biblioitems NULL - deletedbiblioitems 73229 - items NULL - deleteditems So if I understand right with this setup when using MariaDB 10.5.15 the problem should no more happen. Unfortunately I'm quite sure it will happen again anyway (as before). I will then write to the list again. PS: This is the 3rd trial to get this e-mail through. Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch
________________________________ Van: Koha <koha-bounces@lists.katipo.co.nz> namens Michael Kuhn <mik@adminkuhn.ch> Verzonden: donderdag 25 augustus 2022 11:03 Aan: Koha <koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> Onderwerp: [Koha] DBMS auto increment fix not working
Hi
In our library we are using Debian 11 with MariaDB 10.5.15 and Koha 21.05.14.
When deleting bibliographic records in the staff client, some deletions produce the message: "An error has occurred! Error 500 / This message may have been caused by any of the following reasons: etc." In such cases Koha menu "About Koha > System information" shows the message aubout data problems, saying
Some of your tables have problems with their auto_increment values which may lead to data loss.
You should not ignore this warning.
The problem is that InnoDB does not keep auto_increment across SQL server restarts (it is only set in memory). So on server startup the auto_increment values are set to max(table.id)+1.
To know how to avoid this problem see the related wiki page: DBMS auto increment fix
According to https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.koha-... the problem shouldn't appear with MariaDB 10.5.15 but as a trial we have implemented the solution described there and have restarted everything - still the problem persists.
In such cases file "plack-error.log" shows the following:
{UNKNOWN}: DBI Exception: DBD::mysql::db do failed: Duplicate entry '6187-marcxml-MARC21' for key 'deletedbiblio_metadata_uniq_key' [for Statement " INSERT INTO deletedbiblio_metadata (biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata) SELECT biblionumber, format, `schema`, metadata FROM biblio_metadata WHERE biblionumber=? "] at /usr/share/koha/lib/C4/Biblio.pm line 2907
I suspect this behavior indeed looks like the original auto_increment problem described in bugs 18242, 18651, 18966, 19106 and 20271 but the reason may in fact not be the same since the described problem shouldn't appear at all in MariaDB 10.5.15.
Does anyone have an idea what is happening and how we can solve it?
Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.adminku... _______________________________________________
Koha mailing list https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fkoha-commun... Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Unsubscribe: https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.kati... _______________________________________________
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Hi Marcel On 30 August you wrote:
The fact that it will no longer happen under MariaDB 10.5.15 does not guarantee that you still suffer the consequences of older occurrences. The wiki promises a script but it never made it probably.
But the easiest 'solution' is deleting the records in the deleted_* tables that have a corresponding id in the normal tables.
We have done this before and I did this again today. At the moment there are no biblionumbers existing in table "deletedbiblio" that also exist in table "biblio". Menu "About Koha > System information" does not show errors anymore.
After that verify that your autoincrement pointers on the normal tables are higher than the maximum id values in the deleted tables. If they would not be, you may bump into the issue again one day.
I have checked the currentauto_increment values for all tables, the values in the normal tables are always higher than the ones in the respective deleted tables: 147200 - biblio 146933 - deletedbiblio 147200 - biblio_metadata 68588 - deletedbiblio_metadata 147200 - biblioitems NULL - deletedbiblioitems 73229 - items NULL - deleteditems So if I understand right with this setup when using MariaDB 10.5.15 the problem should no more happen. Unfortunately I'm quite sure it will happen again anyway (as before). I will then write to the list again. PS: This is the 4th trial to get this e-mail through, this time omitting the thread. Best wishes: Michael -- Geschäftsführer · Diplombibliothekar BBS, Informatiker eidg. Fachausweis Admin Kuhn GmbH · Pappelstrasse 20 · 4123 Allschwil · Schweiz T 0041 (0)61 261 55 61 · E mik@adminkuhn.ch · W www.adminkuhn.ch
participants (3)
-
Katrin Fischer -
Marcel de Rooy -
Michael Kuhn