Hey all, How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after. Suggestions? CM -- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
Can it be done through the administrative end?
Unfortunately no (http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=4134).
When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
It sounds like you have tag moderation turned on but haven't approved the tags you entered. Go to Tools > Tags and approve tags there. Or turn off moderation using the TagsModeration system preference. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic. However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those. Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that. -- Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 ----------------------------- On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that. I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust. Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search. Caitlin M 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506816-232-5479 x2303
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.orgKoha@lists.katipo.co.nzhttp://lists.katipo.co.nz/ma...
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email. Greg -------------------------------- On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
-- Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search? Greg ----------------------------- On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I equate tags with keywords and would think they should be searchable one in the same. Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and looking at your own list? Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best way to go, though it does have a price. CM 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?
Greg -----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506816-232-5479 x2303
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.orgKoha@lists.katipo.co.nzhttp://lists.katipo.co.nz/ma...
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from the staff interface. That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but <gregariously> misspelled, tags. If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's not really like a search term. Greg ================ On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I equate tags with keywords and would think they should be searchable one in the same.
Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and looking at your own list? Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best way to go, though it does have a price.
CM
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?
Greg -----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
-- Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to inject the tags. So, our options are: 1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record) 2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields. Complicated, but flexible. 3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra. I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha; they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible. -Ian 2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from the staff interface.
That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but <gregariously> misspelled, tags.
If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's not really like a search term.
Greg ================
On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I equate tags with keywords and would think they should be searchable one in the same.
Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and looking at your own list? Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best way to go, though it does have a price.
CM
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?
Greg -----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506816-232-5479 x2303
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.orgKoha@lists.katipo.co.nzhttp://lists.katipo.co.nz/ma...
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Ian Walls Lead Development Specialist ByWater Solutions ALA Booth 732 Phone # (888) 900-8944 http://bywatersolutions.com ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com Twitter: @sekjal
FYI, this functionality is how SOPAC2 works. The tags added to the records become part of the metadata associated with the item. I recommend the person interested in this functionality look into using SOPAC2 which is also open sourse (yay!) and I wonder also if it would be worthwhile for developers (Ian?) to look at how SOPAC2 works for some ideas. As I understand, John Blyberg (developer of SOPAC2) uses Insurge to accomplish this. So, incorporating just the Insurge part of SOPAC2 might be a possibility (said the non-developer who wanted to believe that everything was so simple!). Lori =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lori Bowen Ayre // Library Technology Consultant The Galecia Group // www.galecia.com (707) 763-6869 // Lori.Ayre@galecia.com <Lori.Ayre@galecia.com>Specializing in open source ILS solutions, RFID, filtering, workflow optimization, and materials handling =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 2011/5/25 Ian Walls <ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com>
The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to inject the tags.
So, our options are:
1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record)
2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields. Complicated, but flexible.
3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra.
I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha; they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible.
-Ian
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from the staff interface.
That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but <gregariously> misspelled, tags.
If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's not really like a search term.
Greg ================
On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I equate tags with keywords and would think they should be searchable one in the same.
Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and looking at your own list? Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best way to go, though it does have a price.
CM
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?
Greg -----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506816-232-5479 x2303
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.orgKoha@lists.katipo.co.nzhttp://lists.katipo.co.nz/ma...
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
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-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506816-232-5479 x2303
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Le 25/05/2011 14:38, Ian Walls a écrit :
The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to inject the tags.
So, our options are:
1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record)
2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields. Complicated, but flexible.
3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra.
Hi hopping into the thread. Could also be done tweaking the rebuild_zebra which would take some mysql information and put them into a marcrecord with hardcoded tags/subfields (090 091 990 ? For Internal Koha usage... Some quite important mysql data such as last modified, first created, and so on could also be added that way.) Maybe a kind of plugin for rebuild_zebra. But I would have rather more librarians to talk about that issue. Some librarians will want to index those tags, others won't because it will add some noise and users donot add "correct and valid" tags. Problem would to add to zebraqueue as soon as a tag is added or validated. To adress Lori's question, about the SOPAC2 management of tags, this would not be ideal i think. Insurge would be yet another indexing engine with another technology (sphynx and mysql). And changing for or adding Insurge would not change the core problems. It is not the indexing engine... It is the way things are done, the C4::Search.pm and the way we index things. I would have rather index the stuff as a tag index into a zebra/whatever koha search engine. Working on Solr integration, we pondered on the question. And decided Not to add A plugin to index tags at the moment... The more you add indexes, the more you add overhead at indexing time. We have to work on a solution to index a record as fast as lightning... But run short of time. And the MARCXML representation is not the "fastest to parse" one (This could be addressed... But would any library be interested in funding that idea ? koha should work as fast as it was in... 2.2... And it is internal work... So, who cares ?). MarcXML choice may have been clever at one point... But what we did with it was not (I mean the C4::XSLT.pm and the parsing of stylesheet could be embedded in a more clever way, the rebuild_zebra in iso2709 only at first...). And the counterpart is everyday heavier and heavier. But still, it would have to index the record when a tag is added... Which is not ideal. Neither is the present day situation... But at least, it is not adding some overhead indexing with tags management or noise in the results. But what data is indexed and how it is indexed should be a global concern (For instance, acquisitions information, user interactions, and claims may all be indexed into the search engine) ? that would raise issues for indexing... acquisition elements, privacy, permissions (Do patrons need to be able to search with acquisition data ?) and so on... In my humble opinion, that would need to be discussed on a wider scale than just a company or a dev group, or even a users group.... And not only librarians, but all the users, that also mean patrons. patrons' opinion should be important. There is a workgroup need there. Not on a local base (which would already be nice), but on a widescale base, with use cases. The whole koha users may have to speak their minds about what THEY want. And when ppl agree on what they want to see, they could go through RFP, RFI, CCTP, whatever. And speaking only english could raise some artificial barriers (indian libraries, french, german users, pakistanese, spanish users). Maybe I am too much demanding, you may think I am just whinning or idle thinking. But there are groups that gathered and worked and designed stuff... Why should Koha users around the world not be able to do so ? My 2 cents. -- Henri-Damien LAURENT
I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha; they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible.
-Ian
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from the staff interface.
That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but <gregariously> misspelled, tags.
If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's not really like a search term.
Greg ================
On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I equate tags with keywords and would think they should be searchable one in the same.
Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and looking at your own list? Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best way to go, though it does have a price.
CM
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced search?
Greg -----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Ian Walls Lead Development Specialist ByWater Solutions ALA Booth 732 Phone # (888) 900-8944 http://bywatersolutions.com ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com <mailto:ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com> Twitter: @sekjal
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
As an aside, I'd like to point out that Koha libraries using LibraryThing for Libraries (the function for which is built into Koha already in GlobalSystemPreferences>EnhancedContent) seems to be the best current solution for tagging issues. See the example below: http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=63777 The "tag browser" basically works as a separate search engine. Would be great if Koha had this separate from LTFL (which costs money), but it's a workable solution for now. CM On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 12:30 PM, LAURENT Henri-Damien < henridamien.laurent@biblibre.com> wrote:
Le 25/05/2011 14:38, Ian Walls a écrit :
The fundamental problem with making Tags searchable as keywords is that they are not part of the MARC records at all, and since Zebra builds it's search indexes solely off the MARC, there is currently no way to inject the tags.
So, our options are:
1. Put the tags into MARC fields, and index those (probably a bad idea for any kind of record interoperability, and many catalogers will hate the idea of the public being able to edit the MARC record)
2. Put the tags into a different metadata format and index them separately, mixing in the results with the results for MARC fields. Complicated, but flexible.
3. Have a separate search mechanism for tags. Not very integrated, and if it's MySQL-based, will bog down like Koha did before Zebra.
Hi hopping into the thread.
Could also be done tweaking the rebuild_zebra which would take some mysql information and put them into a marcrecord with hardcoded tags/subfields (090 091 990 ? For Internal Koha usage... Some quite important mysql data such as last modified, first created, and so on could also be added that way.) Maybe a kind of plugin for rebuild_zebra.
But I would have rather more librarians to talk about that issue. Some librarians will want to index those tags, others won't because it will add some noise and users donot add "correct and valid" tags. Problem would to add to zebraqueue as soon as a tag is added or validated.
To adress Lori's question, about the SOPAC2 management of tags, this would not be ideal i think. Insurge would be yet another indexing engine with another technology (sphynx and mysql). And changing for or adding Insurge would not change the core problems. It is not the indexing engine... It is the way things are done, the C4::Search.pm and the way we index things.
I would have rather index the stuff as a tag index into a zebra/whatever koha search engine. Working on Solr integration, we pondered on the question. And decided Not to add A plugin to index tags at the moment... The more you add indexes, the more you add overhead at indexing time. We have to work on a solution to index a record as fast as lightning... But run short of time. And the MARCXML representation is not the "fastest to parse" one (This could be addressed... But would any library be interested in funding that idea ? koha should work as fast as it was in... 2.2... And it is internal work... So, who cares ?). MarcXML choice may have been clever at one point... But what we did with it was not (I mean the C4::XSLT.pm and the parsing of stylesheet could be embedded in a more clever way, the rebuild_zebra in iso2709 only at first...). And the counterpart is everyday heavier and heavier.
But still, it would have to index the record when a tag is added... Which is not ideal. Neither is the present day situation... But at least, it is not adding some overhead indexing with tags management or noise in the results.
But what data is indexed and how it is indexed should be a global concern (For instance, acquisitions information, user interactions, and claims may all be indexed into the search engine) ? that would raise issues for indexing... acquisition elements, privacy, permissions (Do patrons need to be able to search with acquisition data ?) and so on... In my humble opinion, that would need to be discussed on a wider scale than just a company or a dev group, or even a users group.... And not only librarians, but all the users, that also mean patrons. patrons' opinion should be important. There is a workgroup need there. Not on a local base (which would already be nice), but on a widescale base, with use cases. The whole koha users may have to speak their minds about what THEY want. And when ppl agree on what they want to see, they could go through RFP, RFI, CCTP, whatever. And speaking only english could raise some artificial barriers (indian libraries, french, german users, pakistanese, spanish users).
Maybe I am too much demanding, you may think I am just whinning or idle thinking. But there are groups that gathered and worked and designed stuff... Why should Koha users around the world not be able to do so ?
My 2 cents. -- Henri-Damien LAURENT
I'm open to other ideas for how we could make tags more usable in Koha; they're a great feature, they just need to be made more accessible.
-Ian
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
When you have moderation turned on a staff person has to review and approve/reject the tags, so that's one place they are visible from the staff interface.
That's also one of the features we want to improve. Right now there is no mechanism for editing the tags that someone posts. We want to have them editable to remove, as one example, profanity from an otherwise acceptable tag string, or to correct good, but <gregariously> misspelled, tags.
If you go to the OPAC tag cloud, of course, you can see the tags listed and select a tag to see what it's been applied to, but that's not really like a search term.
Greg ================
On 05/24/2011 03:41 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Seems like that could be the best option, Greg. Though generally I equate tags with keywords and would think they should be searchable one in the same.
Is the only way to see tags when you're logged in as a patron, and looking at your own list? Also, reiterating what I asked before- has anyone tried the LibraryThing for Libraries tagging option? That might be the best way to go, though it does have a price.
CM
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>>
Maybe a tag should be a keyword search option in advanced
search?
Greg -----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:28 PM, G. Laws wrote:
We are considering, to be a bit more specific, funding improvements to the tagging feature, and would happily welcome participative assistance in this regard with any interested parties. If you are interested we can discuss it with ByWater Solutions, with which we have been talking about enhancements, or via direct email.
Greg
--------------------------------
On 05/24/2011 03:08 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Interesting- fixed the OPAC configuration, so thanks for that.
I'm also finding that although you can tag an item, you still can't search for that tag and get any results. Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
Has anyone had much luck with the LibraryThing for Libraries function? My institution is thinking about getting it to fix this tagging issue. If anyone is currently using it, I'd be curious to know whether or not it allows you to find the tags in a catalog search.
Caitlin M
2011/5/24 G. Laws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org
I don't think you can tag from the staff interface. We've talked about doing some tagging enhancements; so maybe this will be a good discussion topic.
However, you clearly have a separate problem with tagging from the OPAC that needs to be resolved. You have to enable tagging in the staff interface. In the OPAC configuration there are several settings, like tagsenabled and tagsmoderated, etc. Check those.
Of interest, however, I now see that the text for tagsenabled says it enables both patrons and staff to tag, so I don't know what's with that.
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303>
-----------------------------
On 05/24/2011 01:48 PM, Caitlin McGurk wrote:
Hey all,
How does Tagging work in Koha? Can it be done through the administrative end? I can't find a section for it, other than from the patron side. When I try to add tags to certain books as a patron, they do not save and the item does not appear when a search is done for that tag after.
Suggestions?
CM
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org
McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk /Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org <mailto:McGurk@cartoonstudies.org>/
--
Greg Lawson Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Ian Walls Lead Development Specialist ByWater Solutions ALA Booth 732 Phone # (888) 900-8944 http://bywatersolutions.com ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com <mailto:ian.walls@bywatersolutions.com> Twitter: @sekjal
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Caitlin McGurk *Librarian The Schulz Library The Center for Cartoon Studies <http://www.cartoonstudies.org> McGurk@cartoonstudies.org*
Le 25/05/2011 19:01, Caitlin McGurk a écrit :
As an aside, I'd like to point out that Koha libraries using LibraryThing for Libraries (the function for which is built into Koha already in GlobalSystemPreferences>EnhancedContent) seems to be the best current solution for tagging issues.
See the example below: http://www.library.org.nz/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=63777
The "tag browser" basically works as a separate search engine. Would be great if Koha had this separate from LTFL (which costs money), but it's a workable solution for now.
CM
Well considering the value added by LTFL, i think it is well worth the money engaged ;) -- Henri-Damien LAURENT
I was wondering.. Our library is considering using tags in a more extensive manner, but wanted to ask a few questions: 1. Were these tagged suggested by staff or students? 2. If they were suggested by students, how did you initiate participation? 3. If they were not suggested by students, do you plan to? -- View this message in context: http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/tagging-in-koha-tp4423072p4470440.html Sent from the Koha - Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
On Jun 8, 2011, at 1:45 PM, Library InfoGeek wrote:
I was wondering.. Our library is considering using tags in a more extensive manner, but wanted to ask a few questions:
1. Were these tagged suggested by staff or students? 2. If they were suggested by students, how did you initiate participation? 3. If they were not suggested by students, do you plan to?
-- View this message in context: http://koha.1045719.n5.nabble.com/tagging-in-koha-tp4423072p4470440.html Sent from the Koha - Discuss mailing list archive at Nabble.com. _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
This blog post by our own Owen Leonard may help you understand tagging a bit better: http://www.myacpl.org/koha/?p=396 Liz Rea lrea@nekls.org
Le 08/06/2011 20:45, Library InfoGeek a écrit :
I was wondering.. Our library is considering using tags in a more extensive manner, but wanted to ask a few questions:
1. Were these tagged suggested by staff or students? 2. If they were suggested by students, how did you initiate participation? 3. If they were not suggested by students, do you plan to?
In Koha, any **identified** user (librarian or student) can propose a tag. If need be, there is a system preference to allow moderation... before publication. participation is initiated by.... communication. Hey have you seen that link ? it allows you to add a tag ;) Hope that helps. -- Henri-Damien LAURENT
2011/5/24 Caitlin McGurk <mcgurk@cartoonstudies.org>:
Seems silly to me that tagging would be worth anything in Koha at all if that's the case. Maybe I'm just not understanding the feature, but I would think that implementing tags *should* be there to make searching more robust.
There is an enhancement request for this: http://bugs.koha-community.org/bugzilla3/show_bug.cgi?id=5993 Nicole
participants (9)
-
Caitlin McGurk -
G. Laws -
Ian Walls -
LAURENT Henri-Damien -
Library InfoGeek -
Liz Rea -
Lori Bowen Ayre -
Nicole Engard -
Owen Leonard