Question: is there ever added value in including hyphens in an ISBN that would be lost if hyphens were stripped before lookup? I included hyphens when reporting bibliographic information, including the ISBNs of the two obscure titles I had failed to find, and was advised not to use hyphens when searching by ISBN. But I had already stripped the hyphens when searching: I included them for completeness when posting bibliographic information for the unfindable titles. If there is never benefit from retaining hyphens from a submitted ISBN, then I would suggest a UX enhancement of ignoring hyphens when doing lookups. I don’t see added value for having searches fail if the ISBN includes hyphens as given. Sent from ProtonMail for iOS
Hi, C.S.! Hyphens are never entered into the 020 ISBN field of a MARC record--they are specifically prohibited, actually--c.f.: MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data: 020: International Standard Book Number (Network Development and MARC Standards Office, Library of Congress) (loc.gov)<https://www.loc.gov/marc/bibliographic/bd020.html> So all library systems, including Koha, are designed to deal with them without hyphens, and the MARC format instructs that hyphens may be generated for display. The hyphens are only for humans, dividing the ISBN into its components of country of publication, publisher, then publication number. So since the MARC Format instructs we humans to omit the hyphens, I would argue that there's no UX enhancement needed to instruct the software to ignore the hyphens--that's the way the software is supposed to be designed. And if a human does include the hyphens and the search fails because of the hyphens, perhaps we should be improving the instructions to humans to omit the hyphens? Cheerio! h2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ms. Heather Hernandez (she, her, hers) Technical Services Librarian Library catalog: https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/ San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park Research Center 2 Marina Blvd., Bldg. E, 3rd floor, San Francisco, CA 94123-1284 415-561-7032 (office generally M-W, telecommuting Th-F) heather_hernandez@nps.gov<https://webmail.lmi.net/src/compose.php?send_to=heather_hernandez%40nps.gov>
Thank you for clarifying! I no longer think that hyphens should be accepted and ignored, but putting some message like a good UX password field's "Caps lock is on" would help people like me realize that I'm not supposed to enter hyphens. Br. C.S. Hayward, c-s-hayward.com ------- Original Message ------- On Friday, May 20th, 2022 at 11:44 AM, Hernandez, Heather H <Heather_Hernandez@nps.gov> wrote:
Hi, C.S.! Hyphens are never entered into the 020 ISBN field of a MARC record--they are specifically prohibited, actually--c.f.:MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data: 020: International Standard Book Number (Network Development and MARC Standards Office, Library of Congress) (loc.gov)
So all library systems, including Koha, are designed to deal with them without hyphens, and the MARC format instructs that hyphens may be generated for display. The hyphens are only for humans, dividing the ISBN into its components of country of publication, publisher, then publication number. So since the MARC Format instructs we humans to omit the hyphens, I would argue that there's no UX enhancement needed to instruct the software to ignore the hyphens--that's the way the software is supposed to be designed. And if a human does include the hyphens and the search fails because of the hyphens, perhaps we should be improving the instructions to humans to omit the hyphens? Cheerio!h2
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Ms. Heather Hernandez (she, her, hers) Technical Services Librarian Library catalog: https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/ San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park Research Center 2 Marina Blvd., Bldg. E, 3rd floor, San Francisco, CA 94123-1284 415-561-7032 (office generally M-W, telecommuting Th-F) heather_hernandez@nps.gov
Hi, You can do it by binding the 020$a input field with a js keydown / keyup event to throw that alert / hint on the UI Although tbh, this is something that a professional cataloger is supposed to know, which i understand you are not (appreciate your effort to learn though :-). Cheers Indranil. On Sat, 21 May, 2022, 4:01 pm C.S. Hayward, <c.s.hayward@protonmail.com> wrote:
Thank you for clarifying!
I no longer think that hyphens should be accepted and ignored, but putting some message like a good UX password field's "Caps lock is on" would help people like me realize that I'm not supposed to enter hyphens.
Br. C.S. Hayward, c-s-hayward.com
------- Original Message ------- On Friday, May 20th, 2022 at 11:44 AM, Hernandez, Heather H < Heather_Hernandez@nps.gov> wrote:
Hi, C.S.! Hyphens are never entered into the 020 ISBN field of a MARC record--they are specifically prohibited, actually--c.f.:MARC 21 Format for Bibliographic Data: 020: International Standard Book Number (Network Development and MARC Standards Office, Library of Congress) (loc.gov)
So all library systems, including Koha, are designed to deal with them without hyphens, and the MARC format instructs that hyphens may be generated for display. The hyphens are only for humans, dividing the ISBN into its components of country of publication, publisher, then publication number. So since the MARC Format instructs we humans to omit the hyphens, I would argue that there's no UX enhancement needed to instruct the software to ignore the hyphens--that's the way the software is supposed to be designed. And if a human does include the hyphens and the search fails because of the hyphens, perhaps we should be improving the instructions to humans to omit the hyphens? Cheerio!h2
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Ms. Heather Hernandez (she, her, hers) Technical Services Librarian Library catalog: https://keys.bywatersolutions.com/ San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park Research Center 2 Marina Blvd., Bldg. E, 3rd floor, San Francisco, CA 94123-1284 415-561-7032 (office generally M-W, telecommuting Th-F) heather_hernandez@nps.gov
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participants (3)
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C.S. Hayward -
Hernandez, Heather H -
Indranil Das Gupta