Fwd: RFP: 3rd NAKUG/KohaNA meeting
Greetings all, The Koha North America User’s Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting held in early August, 2016. This meeting offers participants two days of instructional sessions and presentations, followed by a two day hackfest. Host expectations: -Handling meeting registration fee(s) -Sign contract(s) to secure an appropriate venue for this meeting, including refreshments, WiFi, video projectors, tables & chairs, etc. Please submit your proposals for this important meeting by filling out the form found at: < https://docs.google.com/forms/d/174fDHlU53V5IH2tz2-si3TrBTMKbl2gtMufpH9a9_d8/viewform?usp=send_form>. Information in your proposal should include (but does not need to be limited to) the following information: 1. The location and what kind of conference facility would be offered. Confirm that the site would have internet and other technology available to enable presentations and general connectivity. 2. Dates when the meeting could occur at the proposed location. 3. Information about transportation -- the closest airports and train stations and how one could get from these places to the meeting site. 4. Lodging in the area. 5. Anything else we would need to know about the location and what makes it a great choice for this meeting. Please submit your proposals by Friday,December 4th, 2015. If we receive multiple proposals we will set up a method for potential attendees to vote on the preferred meeting location. Please send your related questions/comments to rhastings at nekls dot org
Salvete!
The Koha North America User’s Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting held in early August, 2016. This meeting offers participants two days of instructional sessions and presentations, followed by a two day hackfest.
At risk of beating a dead horse, I am once again disappointed that this body has taken up the mantle of "North America". There are plenty of Libraries, Organisations, and Agencies within North America that do not fit your group's stringent United States centric viewpoint. I am also continually saddened that this body will only consider meeting in early August. It is further too bad that you all charge fees for your meeting. The three of these problems in combination send a strong repeated message that inclusivity is not an aim of your organisation, whether that be a valid conclusion to draw or no. I do so hope that at some point in future, this group might reconsider any or all of those matters. Cheers, Brooke
Brooke: A. Inclusiveness So are you saying that there can only be one worldwide Koha group, and that there cannot be national or regional level Koha groups and corresponding meetings? Do you presume that anyone from outside North America would be unwelcome at a North America/United States meeting? Would it be appropriate for the NA/USA group to openly solicit world-wide attendance, and possibly seem to be competing with World KohaCon? There may be topics of interest only to US organizations, like eRate, LSTA grants and US laws, like privacy legislation, that may be important and need to be discussed but which may be avoided in an effort to be inclusive of other countries attendees if those were many. Concession: there is sometimes, and possibly in this case, the tendency to equate North America (23 countries per Wikipedia) with the United States. That is more a careless, linguistic peccadillo, I suggest, than a felony warranting a call-to-arms. B. Time of Meeting I don't think meeting in a particular month carries the same weight of concern as your first point about inclusiveness, or even your last about attendance fees. C. Attendance Fees Libraries, few in the US rich, don't always have good conference rooms, especially if there are conference break-out sessions. That may mean renting some hotel meeting room space for $1,000 a day. If it requires a $20 charge per person to get some good facilities I think that's reasonable. I have always, albeit typically privately, supported the idea of a reasonable attendance fee. I greatly appreciate it when a hosting organization provides coffee, maybe juice, and pastries for breakfast so that I don't have to run all over a hotel in the morning trying to find the $5 coffee and $4 donuts, being late for the inaugural address, and spilling now-cold coffee all over the nice lady in the row in front of me as I say "excuse-me, excuse-me" as I trip over people trying to get to the only open seat in the middle of the row in the middle of the room. Having coffee and donuts provided at the event is worth some coin to me and something more to the ex-nice lady soaked in cold vanilla hazelnut coffee which clashes terribly with her /parfum du jour/. Greg -------------------------------------- On 11/19/2015 02:19 PM, BWS Johnson wrote:
Salvete!
The Koha North America User’s Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting held in early August, 2016. This meeting offers participants two days of instructional sessions and presentations, followed by a two day hackfest.
At risk of beating a dead horse, I am once again disappointed that this body has taken up the mantle of "North America". There are plenty of Libraries, Organisations, and Agencies within North America that do not fit your group's stringent United States centric viewpoint. I am also continually saddened that this body will only consider meeting in early August. It is further too bad that you all charge fees for your meeting. The three of these problems in combination send a strong repeated message that inclusivity is not an aim of your organisation, whether that be a valid conclusion to draw or no. I do so hope that at some point in future, this group might reconsider any or all of those matters.
Cheers, Brooke _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
As a total outsider, I did have a wry smile about a group calling itself North American insisting its meeting venue be within the US. But I should let the Mexicans and Canadians speak for themselves, of course. In general, any forum that facilitates the coming together of Koha users to share experience and ideas is to be encouraged. I'd guess that's the context of Brooke's points about fees and August - just making it as easy as possible for folks to join in. Congratulations on your initiative and best wishes for future gatherings. Bob On 20/11/15 08:40, glaws wrote:
Brooke:
A. Inclusiveness
So are you saying that there can only be one worldwide Koha group, and that there cannot be national or regional level Koha groups and corresponding meetings?
Do you presume that anyone from outside North America would be unwelcome at a North America/United States meeting?
Would it be appropriate for the NA/USA group to openly solicit world-wide attendance, and possibly seem to be competing with World KohaCon?
There may be topics of interest only to US organizations, like eRate, LSTA grants and US laws, like privacy legislation, that may be important and need to be discussed but which may be avoided in an effort to be inclusive of other countries attendees if those were many.
Concession: there is sometimes, and possibly in this case, the tendency to equate North America (23 countries per Wikipedia) with the United States. That is more a careless, linguistic peccadillo, I suggest, than a felony warranting a call-to-arms.
B. Time of Meeting
I don't think meeting in a particular month carries the same weight of concern as your first point about inclusiveness, or even your last about attendance fees.
C. Attendance Fees
Libraries, few in the US rich, don't always have good conference rooms, especially if there are conference break-out sessions. That may mean renting some hotel meeting room space for $1,000 a day. If it requires a $20 charge per person to get some good facilities I think that's reasonable.
I have always, albeit typically privately, supported the idea of a reasonable attendance fee. I greatly appreciate it when a hosting organization provides coffee, maybe juice, and pastries for breakfast so that I don't have to run all over a hotel in the morning trying to find the $5 coffee and $4 donuts, being late for the inaugural address, and spilling now-cold coffee all over the nice lady in the row in front of me as I say "excuse-me, excuse-me" as I trip over people trying to get to the only open seat in the middle of the row in the middle of the room. Having coffee and donuts provided at the event is worth some coin to me and something more to the ex-nice lady soaked in cold vanilla hazelnut coffee which clashes terribly with her /parfum du jour/.
Greg
--------------------------------------
On 11/19/2015 02:19 PM, BWS Johnson wrote:
Salvete!
The Koha North America User’s Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting held in early August, 2016. This meeting offers participants two days of instructional sessions and presentations, followed by a two day hackfest. At risk of beating a dead horse, I am once again disappointed that this body has taken up the mantle of "North America". There are plenty of Libraries, Organisations, and Agencies within North America that do not fit your group's stringent United States centric viewpoint. I am also continually saddened that this body will only consider meeting in early August. It is further too bad that you all charge fees for your meeting. The three of these problems in combination send a strong repeated message that inclusivity is not an aim of your organisation, whether that be a valid conclusion to draw or no. I do so hope that at some point in future, this group might reconsider any or all of those matters.
Cheers, Brooke _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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At 03:40 PM 11/19/2015 -0600, glaws wrote:
Concession: there is sometimes, and possibly in this case, the tendency to equate North America (23 countries per Wikipedia) with the United States. That is more a careless, linguistic peccadillo, I suggest, than a felony warranting a call-to-arms.
Very respectfully, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America> lists 45 countries (colourful table about 20% down the page)[1] including what "old-fashioned me" used to call "Central America" and "the Caribbean." North America is, at the very least, Canada, the USA, St Pierre et Miquelon and Greenland. The phrase "Koha North America User's Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting" is *NOT* a "linguistic peccadillo", it is an explicitly discriminatory invitation. Paul [1] Including, btw, La Navasse which is seen by most historians as an anomalous US land-grab under the Guano Islands Act of 1856 which allows the US President to "consider as appertaining to the United States" any piece of real estate covered in ... guano.
B. Time of Meeting
I don't think meeting in a particular month carries the same weight of concern as your first point about inclusiveness, or even your last about attendance fees.
C. Attendance Fees
Libraries, few in the US rich, don't always have good conference rooms, especially if there are conference break-out sessions. That may mean renting some hotel meeting room space for $1,000 a day. If it requires a $20 charge per person to get some good facilities I think that's reasonable.
I have always, albeit typically privately, supported the idea of a reasonable attendance fee. I greatly appreciate it when a hosting organization provides coffee, maybe juice, and pastries for breakfast so that I don't have to run all over a hotel in the morning trying to find the $5 coffee and $4 donuts, being late for the inaugural address, and spilling now-cold coffee all over the nice lady in the row in front of me as I say "excuse-me, excuse-me" as I trip over people trying to get to the only open seat in the middle of the row in the middle of the room. Having coffee and donuts provided at the event is worth some coin to me and something more to the ex-nice lady soaked in cold vanilla hazelnut coffee which clashes terribly with her /parfum du jour/.
Greg
--------------------------------------
Salvete!
The Koha North America Userâs Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting held in early August, 2016. This meeting offers participants two days of instructional sessions and presentations, followed by a two day hackfest.
At risk of beating a dead horse, I am once again disappointed that
On 11/19/2015 02:19 PM, BWS Johnson wrote: this body has taken up the mantle of "North America". There are plenty of Libraries, Organisations, and Agencies within North America that do not fit your group's stringent United States centric viewpoint. I am also continually saddened that this body will only consider meeting in early August. It is further too bad that you all charge fees for your meeting. The three of these problems in combination send a strong repeated message that inclusivity is not an aim of your organisation, whether that be a valid conclusion to draw or no. I do so hope that at some point in future, this group might reconsider any or all of those matters.
Cheers, Brooke _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America -> With respect, in turn, the right hand column specifically says "Countries 23", with a link to those 23: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territo.... The list of 45 includes territories. Greg ------------------------------------- On 11/19/2015 04:32 PM, Paul A wrote:
At 03:40 PM 11/19/2015 -0600, glaws wrote:
Concession: there is sometimes, and possibly in this case, the tendency to equate North America (23 countries per Wikipedia) with the United States. That is more a careless, linguistic peccadillo, I suggest, than a felony warranting a call-to-arms.
Very respectfully, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America> lists 45 countries (colourful table about 20% down the page)[1] including what "old-fashioned me" used to call "Central America" and "the Caribbean." North America is, at the very least, Canada, the USA, St Pierre et Miquelon and Greenland.
The phrase "Koha North America User's Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting" is *NOT* a "linguistic peccadillo", it is an explicitly discriminatory invitation.
Paul [1] Including, btw, La Navasse which is seen by most historians as an anomalous US land-grab under the Guano Islands Act of 1856 which allows the US President to "consider as appertaining to the United States" any piece of real estate covered in ... guano.
---------------snip------------------
At 04:42 PM 11/19/2015 -0600, glaws wrote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America -> With respect, in turn, the right hand column specifically says "Countries 23", with a link to those 23: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territo....
The list of 45 includes territories.
"territories"? "sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_North_America"? Linguistic pecadillo? Koha North America User's Group ==> Koha USA User's Group As a Canadian, I'm out of this conversation. Paul
Greg -------------------------------------
On 11/19/2015 04:32 PM, Paul A wrote:
At 03:40 PM 11/19/2015 -0600, glaws wrote:
Concession: there is sometimes, and possibly in this case, the tendency to equate North America (23 countries per Wikipedia) with the United States. That is more a careless, linguistic peccadillo, I suggest, than a felony warranting a call-to-arms.
Very respectfully, <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America> lists 45 countries (colourful table about 20% down the page)[1] including what "old-fashioned me" used to call "Central America" and "the Caribbean." North America is, at the very least, Canada, the USA, St Pierre et Miquelon and Greenland.
The phrase "Koha North America User's Group would like to invite agencies and libraries located within the United States to host its third annual meeting" is *NOT* a "linguistic peccadillo", it is an explicitly discriminatory invitation.
Paul [1] Including, btw, La Navasse which is seen by most historians as an anomalous US land-grab under the Guano Islands Act of 1856 which allows the US President to "consider as appertaining to the United States" any piece of real estate covered in ... guano.
---------------snip------------------ _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz https://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
--- Maritime heritage and history, preservation and conservation, research and education through the written word and the arts. <http://NavalMarineArchive.com> and <http://UltraMarine.ca>
On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 4:40 PM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
Brooke:
A. Inclusiveness
So are you saying that there can only be one worldwide Koha group, and that there cannot be national or regional level Koha groups and corresponding meetings?
This sounds like a straw man argument. Brooke doesn't have to justify her assertion because the invitation specifically invites "agencies and libraries located within the United States." There's no ambiguity to those words. Non-U.S. North American agencies and libraries were not invited. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Salvete!
So are you saying that there can only be one worldwide Koha group, and that there cannot be national or regional level Koha groups and corresponding meetings?
Of course not. It's good to get together and talk things through. What I am saying is that folks should not call themselves something they are not. I'm a bit disturbed by the shift in participation I've witnessed over the last few years. It seems very much that people are starting to prefer their own silos to the larger project. That heavy localisation hurts everyone in the long run. I'd rather that not happen.
Do you presume that anyone from outside North America would be unwelcome at a North America/United States meeting?
Would it be appropriate for the NA/USA group to openly solicit world-wide attendance, and possibly seem to be competing with World KohaCon?
There's no reason for the US group to not openly invite participation from elsewhere. What's worrying with respect to KohaCon proper is that institutions are prefering to only send representatives to the US Conference and not KohaCon proper. I realise that these are hard budget times, but if the choice is solely between the two, shooting for the latter is better for all concerned. When budget does not play a role, it would be wonderful for folks to attend both since the ideas would not be penned in either at an international level or at a national one.
I don't think meeting in a particular month carries the same weight of concern as your first point about inclusiveness, or even your last about attendance fees.
You might not think so, but the tourism industry in much of the country does. If cost is a concern, having hosts be able to submit bids for their off season or at least off peak season can help substantially.
C. Attendance Fees
Libraries, few in the US rich, don't always have good conference rooms, especially if there are conference break-out sessions. That may mean renting some hotel meeting room space for $1,000 a day. If it requires a $20 charge per person to get some good facilities I think that's reasonable.
A Conference is not about having a nice facility, a tea break, a tote bag, et cetera. It is way more important to speak to one another and share ideas. It is great when people are out of their element and look back on their situations with new eyes. That seemingly harmless charge has been held up to justify charges elsewhere that put Conference out of reach. If we just charged $20 a copy for Koha, we could bring in a lot of money. It would run against the spirit of things, though. Sponsorship has been the tool used to keep costs reasonable if not free while allowing for some of those creature comforts. Cheers, Brooke
participants (6)
-
Bob Birchall -
BWS Johnson -
Christopher Davis -
glaws -
Owen Leonard -
Paul A