Hello everyone, We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center. Changing offices and events have kept us very busy. But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki. Just curious if anyone has run into any issues that might pop up in this instance or if the installation and upgrading process would all be the same. Thanks in advance, Jesse -- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036
Jesse, This being the community list, I have to say we know too little about that (years back) fork of Koha. Any doubt about the community Koha, please feel free to ask. Best regards Tomas El Thu Dec 04 2014 at 18:02:53, Jesse Lambertson (<jlambertson@sqcc.org>) escribió:
Hello everyone,
We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center.
Changing offices and events have kept us very busy.
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
Just curious if anyone has run into any issues that might pop up in this instance or if the installation and upgrading process would all be the same.
Thanks in advance,
Jesse
-- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
I am not asking to be rude or that I have any skepticism about anything in the community or the current package, this is merely a technical question for info's sake. This forum is so helpful to me as I prepare to install. I am sorry if I offended anyone. I did not mean to do that. Thank you, Jesse On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Marcel de Rooy <M.de.Rooy@rijksmuseum.nl> wrote:
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
You are asking this on the community list? _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036
Jesse, I don't think anyone intended to come across as rude. There are still -- and always will be -- very hard feelings over the fork of Koha several years ago and everything that happened around that time. Good luck on your install and on your library using Koha. Heather Braum NExpress Coordinator Resource Sharing Librarian Northeast Kansas Library System hbraum@nekls.org "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn." ~Alvin Toffler, *Rethinking the Future* On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Jesse Lambertson <jlambertson@sqcc.org> wrote:
I am not asking to be rude or that I have any skepticism about anything in the community or the current package, this is merely a technical question for info's sake. This forum is so helpful to me as I prepare to install.
I am sorry if I offended anyone. I did not mean to do that.
Thank you,
Jesse
On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 4:12 PM, Marcel de Rooy <M.de.Rooy@rijksmuseum.nl> wrote:
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
You are asking this on the community list? _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
On 5 December 2014 at 10:00, Jesse Lambertson <jlambertson@sqcc.org> wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center.
Changing offices and events have kept us very busy.
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
Hi Jesse
One major point, is that the Liblime software is by their own admission not Koha. It is based on Koha from about 2008/2009. It is also maintained by one company (Liblime) whereas Koha, is maintained by many companies and volunteers worldwide. Of course this being the Koha list, we would recommend Koha. Chris
One major point, is that the Liblime software is by their own admission not Koha. It is based on Koha from about 2008/2009.
Liblime software may or may not be so far removed from Koha by now that they work nothing like each other. We don't know because we don't use it. If you try Liblime "Koha" you will have only Liblime to turn to for help. No other entity supports it. -- Owen -- Web Developer Athens County Public Libraries http://www.myacpl.org
Hi, Jesse! It's my impression that the LibLime version of "Koha" isn't really an open source product, since LibLime doesn't release their code at all--it's more like a proprietary product. So asking us on this list about LibLime's "Koha," here where we talk about the fully open source & community supported Koha, is sort of like asking us about Innovative Milennium or any other proprietary ILS--you'll probably get a lot of shoulder-shrugging! I would guess that if you choose LibLime's "Koha" you'd have all the same problems and issues as if you chose any other proprietary system. I'm sorry that I don't know a good place to find out about LibLime's "Koha"--we have been completely happy with our choice of the fully open source and community supported Koha, and never want to go back to proprietary systems! Good luck! heather ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Heather Hernandez Technical Services Librarian San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park Research Center 415-561-7032, heather_hernandez@nps.gov http://www.nps.gov/safr/historyculture/museum-collections.htm "The sailor does not pray for wind, he learns to sail."--Gustaf Lindborg
On 2014-12-5, at 10:00 AM, Jesse Lambertson wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center.
Changing offices and events have kept us very busy.
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
Just curious if anyone has run into any issues that might pop up in this instance or if the installation and upgrading process would all be the same.
Thanks in advance,
Jesse
You could also try the 'Liblime Koha' mailing list, for more info... https://groups.google.com/a/ptfs.com/forum/#!forum/liblimekohadiscussion
LibLime Koha on the Koha Community! You are alone Jesse. My advice to you is to install LibLime Koha and test it in something like a virtual environment after the test drive you can then compare it with anything. Also ask the people who use LibLime Koha other wise asking about Liblime Koha on this community may not get you useful "information". Good Luck On 4 December 2014 at 23:00, Jesse Lambertson <jlambertson@sqcc.org> wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center.
Changing offices and events have kept us very busy.
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
Just curious if anyone has run into any issues that might pop up in this instance or if the installation and upgrading process would all be the same.
Thanks in advance,
Jesse
-- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Charles Lwanga College of Education, P. O. Box 660193, Monze, ZAMBIA. Mobile: +26 0979 869471 +26 0966 869471 SKYPE: Libsitali
The biggest practical problem that you might run into is of course that there is only one vendor for the LibLime fork so they can name any price they want to fix bugs that you find. Even if it does seem they actualy have a public Git repository for their fork these days you will have a very hard time finding anyone working with Koha willing to touch that code. As for reusing your understanding of Koha with the LibLime fork I think you will have no problem moving around the system. A look at their demos tells me that their fork is still very clearly based on Koha as it existed at the time of the fork. But then again there have been many years of separate development so the two systems will differ greatly in workflow, functionality (and bugs) as you move past the basics. The two products is the same in much the same way as ”Microsoft office” and ”LibreOffice” and ”Open Office” is the same. They aspire to solve the same needs and have a similar name. And as with LibreOffice and OpenOffice they even share a common ancestry but they are all still very different things. I do think it’s very unfortunate that LibLime is still using the Koha name and touting the virtues of open source. But that’s another story. As for using Koha or the LibLime fork of it I’d go for Koha any second - but thanks for asking the question. The question of ”I wonder if LibLime put some sweet stuff in their fork” have been in the back of my head for years, but looking at their demos and a look at their Git repo (albeit a quick one) left me joyfully and thoroughly unimpressed ;) Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Regionbibliotek Halland Kultur i Halland TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30180 Halmstad WEBB: www.regionhalland.se/regionbibliotek 4 dec 2014 kl. 22:00 skrev Jesse Lambertson <jlambertson@sqcc.org>:
Hello everyone,
We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center.
Changing offices and events have kept us very busy.
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
Just curious if anyone has run into any issues that might pop up in this instance or if the installation and upgrading process would all be the same.
Thanks in advance,
Jesse
-- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Viktor, That's an awesome and helpful answer. 😊 Thank you sir. I look forward to getting our community Koha installation underway. I just needed to get this question out. And I've learned a few things in the process. Happy weekend everyone. Jesse Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036 On Dec 5, 2014 3:45 AM, <Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se> wrote:
The biggest practical problem that you might run into is of course that there is only one vendor for the LibLime fork so they can name any price they want to fix bugs that you find. Even if it does seem they actualy have a public Git repository for their fork these days you will have a very hard time finding anyone working with Koha willing to touch that code.
As for reusing your understanding of Koha with the LibLime fork I think you will have no problem moving around the system. A look at their demos tells me that their fork is still very clearly based on Koha as it existed at the time of the fork. But then again there have been many years of separate development so the two systems will differ greatly in workflow, functionality (and bugs) as you move past the basics. The two products is the same in much the same way as ”Microsoft office” and ”LibreOffice” and ”Open Office” is the same. They aspire to solve the same needs and have a similar name. And as with LibreOffice and OpenOffice they even share a common ancestry but they are all still very different things.
I do think it’s very unfortunate that LibLime is still using the Koha name and touting the virtues of open source. But that’s another story. As for using Koha or the LibLime fork of it I’d go for Koha any second - but thanks for asking the question. The question of ”I wonder if LibLime put some sweet stuff in their fork” have been in the back of my head for years, but looking at their demos and a look at their Git repo (albeit a quick one) left me joyfully and thoroughly unimpressed ;)
Viktor Sarge Utvecklingsledare Regionbibliotek Halland Kultur i Halland
TFN: 035-17 98 73 E-POST: Viktor.Sarge@regionhalland.se BESÖKSADRESS: Södra vägen 9, 30180 Halmstad WEBB: www.regionhalland.se/regionbibliotek
4 dec 2014 kl. 22:00 skrev Jesse Lambertson <jlambertson@sqcc.org>:
Hello everyone,
We are about to set up our servers and technical services for our library here at the Cultural Center.
Changing offices and events have kept us very busy.
But I was looking at the LibLime "version" of Koha and wondered, out of curiosity, what problems I might run into if I installed their version instead of the current stable version as hosted on the community wiki.
Just curious if anyone has run into any issues that might pop up in this instance or if the installation and upgrading process would all be the same.
Thanks in advance,
Jesse
-- Jesse A Lambertson Librarian Sultan Qaboos Cultural Center 1100 16th St, NW Washington, DC 20036 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi all, As others pointed out, LLK and Koha are not the same. They were once upon a time, but speaking as someone whose employer (SCLS) chose LLK but who also watches the Koha community with great interest, I can confirm the products are divergent, and increasingly so. Some key differences that are of note (and I'm sure there are others): LLK is, technically, open source, but not nearly as open as Koha. Too many differences to get into in any great detail here, but in summary: very different. You can download it and use it, but you won't find many others who are hosting it and thus able to help in that area; your realistic choices for support are be a LibLime customer or Do It Yourself. Compare community, where one can download, bootstrap and get good help doing it. LLK scales very high. SCLS pushes on average over one million checkouts per month, pitting nearly 500,000 patrons against 900,000 bibs and 3.4 million items. I believe that Koha can scale too, but so far as I know it really has not been battle-tested to the same degree. If/when it is, there may be some hurdles to clear (there definitely were for LLK when we started stomping on it). LLK uses Solr to meet our demanding search requirements. Koha started down that path but (if I understand correctly) is now heading toward other solutions. LLK fines and fees handling is now very different from Koha. Acquisitions too, I think, though I pay hardly any attention in that area... LLK is said to be slated to merge functionality with another fork, LL Academic Koha, creating a new super fork (a spork? =). This is probably going to be good for most LibLime customers, I think, but after that point I think comparing the resulting product to Koha is really going to be quite a stretch of the imagination. Koha has a well-maintained manual, wiki, db schema map and other reference materials. While these were once also pretty valid sources of info for LLK, the fork divergence is continually eroding that value. It is not safe to read something in community resources and conclude that what you find there is also true for LLK. You can test, and you can validate in many cases that things are still similar if not identical under the hood, but you cannot just assume that they are comparable because in some cases they are not. For me, the fact that LLK lacks these documentation and info sharing resources is a real downside. On the upside, when we go to LL staff to get info, they do know or will find the answer, but IMO it would be better if the same scope and quality of reference material were there as exists for Koha. This is definitely a strike against the idea that you can just download LLK and Do It Yourself. ---- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) <gbarniskis at scls.info>, (608) 242-4716
On 6 December 2014 6:19:53 am NZDT, Greg Barniskis <gbarniskis@scls.info> wrote:
Hi all,
As others pointed out, LLK and Koha are not the same. They were once upon a time, but speaking as someone whose employer (SCLS) chose LLK but who also watches the Koha community with great interest, I can confirm the products are divergent, and increasingly so.
Some key differences that are of note (and I'm sure there are others):
LLK is, technically, open source, but not nearly as open as Koha. Too many differences to get into in any great detail here, but in summary: very different. You can download it and use it, but you won't find many others who are hosting it and thus able to help in that area; your realistic choices for support are be a LibLime customer or Do It Yourself. Compare community, where one can download, bootstrap and get good help doing it.
LLK scales very high. SCLS pushes on average over one million checkouts per month, pitting nearly 500,000 patrons against 900,000 bibs and 3.4 million items. I believe that Koha can scale too, but so far as I know it really has not been battle-tested to the same degree. If/when it is, there may be some hurdles to clear (there definitely were for LLK when we started stomping on it).
It has, there are 1000+ public libraries in Argentina using Koha in a union Catalogue. PTFS Europe have a 47 library customer with 700,000 patrons. There are a few other examples, but I just wanted to squash the idea Koha is unproven at scale. I pretty much agree with the rest of the email. Chris
LLK uses Solr to meet our demanding search requirements. Koha started down that path but (if I understand correctly) is now heading toward other solutions.
LLK fines and fees handling is now very different from Koha. Acquisitions too, I think, though I pay hardly any attention in that area...
LLK is said to be slated to merge functionality with another fork, LL Academic Koha, creating a new super fork (a spork? =). This is probably going to be good for most LibLime customers, I think, but after that point I think comparing the resulting product to Koha is really going to be quite a stretch of the imagination.
Koha has a well-maintained manual, wiki, db schema map and other reference materials. While these were once also pretty valid sources of info for LLK, the fork divergence is continually eroding that value. It is not safe to read something in community resources and conclude that what you find there is also true for LLK. You can test, and you can validate in many cases that things are still similar if not identical under the hood, but you cannot just assume that they are comparable because in some cases they are not. For me, the fact that LLK lacks these documentation and info sharing resources is a real downside. On the upside, when we go to LL staff to get info, they do know or will find the answer, but IMO it would be better if the same scope and quality of reference material were there as exists for Koha. This is definitely a strike against the idea that you can just download LLK and Do It Yourself.
---- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) <gbarniskis at scls.info>, (608) 242-4716
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Nice! Thanks for the clarification. ---- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) <gbarniskis at scls.info>, (608) 242-4716 ________________________________________ From: Chris Cormack <chrisc@catalyst.net.nz> Sent: Friday, December 5, 2014 3:07 PM To: Greg Barniskis; Jesse Lambertson; koha@lists.katipo.co.nz Subject: Re: [Koha] Koha vs Liblime Koha snip... It has, there are 1000+ public libraries in Argentina using Koha in a union Catalogue. PTFS Europe have a 47 library customer with 700,000 patrons. There are a few other examples, but I just wanted to squash the idea Koha is unproven at scale. ...snip
participants (12)
-
Chris Cormack -
Chris Cormack -
Chrispin Simasiku Sitali -
Greg Barniskis -
Heather Braum (NEKLS) -
Hernandez, Heather -
Jesse Lambertson -
Marcel de Rooy -
Mason James -
Owen Leonard -
Tomas Cohen Arazi -
Viktor.Sarge＠regionhalland.se