Dear Koha community, you can now vote for the location of the Kohacon 2014 conference. The survey requires your email address, and your IP address is kept until we have the final results. Please be nice and only vote once. Your option are Córdoba (Argentina) and Ibadan (Nigeria). A little information about the locations in question can be found here http://wiki.koha-community.org/wiki/KohaCon2014_Proposals You can vote at http://abunchofthings.net/limesurvey/index.php/952665/lang-en You can vote from now on until October 6, 23:59:59 UTC. -- Mirko
Le 23/09/2013 21:53, Mirko a écrit :
Dear Koha community, Dear Koha community,
you can now vote for the location of the Kohacon 2014 conference. The survey requires your email address, and your IP address is kept until we have the final results. Please be nice and only vote once.
Last year (or was it in 2011 ?) there was some misunderstandings about the poll: the location that was placed 1 got 5 points, 2nd=4 points, 3rd=3 points,... BUT: if one just choose one location, it got 5 points, and all others 0 points. The idea being: * case 1 "I prefer X, but don't mind going to Y" * case 2 "I want to go to X, will never to to Y" To avoid a misunderstanding this year, could we explain now how will the poll work ? all the best -- Paul POULAIN - Associé-gérant Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08 http://www.biblibre.com Logiciels Libres pour les bibliothèques et les centres de documentation
Hello Paul,
From: Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com>
Last year (or was it in 2011 ?) there was some misunderstandings about the poll: the location that was placed 1 got 5 points, 2nd=4 points, 3rd=3 points,... BUT: if one just choose one location, it got 5 points, and all others 0 points. The idea being: * case 1 "I prefer X, but don't mind going to Y" * case 2 "I want to go to X, will never to to Y"
To avoid a misunderstanding this year, could we explain now how will the poll work ?
Good one Paul. The misunderstanding was last year. I have voted and first tried only ranking one option and not picking the other. I got thrown an error that I have not completed the survey. So I guess you have to rank both. I, however, also wait for Mirko to clarify this. Cheers. Olugbenga Adara Skype: gbengaadara Blog: http://gbengaadara.blogspot.com Twitter: http://twitter.com/gbengaadara Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/gbengaadara
Good question from Paul, good answer from Olugbenga. The location with the most #1 votes wins and you have to rank #1 and #2, otherwise you will get an error. There is no way to choose between "don't mind going" and "would never go there". We only have to options, everything else seemed overly complicated and prone to errors and misunderstanding (as we have seen last[?] time). There is only one way to complete the survey (-> ranking both options according to your liking). -- Mirko
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 11:53 AM, Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com>wrote:
Le 23/09/2013 21:53, Mirko a écrit :
Dear Koha community, Dear Koha community,
you can now vote for the location of the Kohacon 2014 conference. The survey requires your email address, and your IP address is kept until we have the final results. Please be nice and only vote once.
Last year (or was it in 2011 ?) there was some misunderstandings about the poll: the location that was placed 1 got 5 points, 2nd=4 points, 3rd=3 points,... BUT: if one just choose one location, it got 5 points, and all others 0 points. The idea being: * case 1 "I prefer X, but don't mind going to Y" * case 2 "I want to go to X, will never to to Y"
case 2 is not possible right now.
Hi, On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com>wrote:
To avoid a misunderstanding this year, could we explain now how will the poll work ?
There are only two choices this year -- what way would establishing a points scheme matter? Whichever bids gets the larger number of first place votes would win -- and how could it be otherwise? Or do you think that there is a sufficient contingent of folks who do not want the KohaCon in either location to require "neither" as an explicit option? Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
Le 24/09/2013 17:48, Galen Charlton a écrit :
Hi,
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:53 AM, Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com <mailto:paul.poulain@biblibre.com>> wrote:
To avoid a misunderstanding this year, could we explain now how will the poll work ? There are only two choices this year -- what way would establishing a points scheme matter? Whichever bids gets the larger number of first place votes would win -- and how could it be otherwise?
well, last year way of calculating could result in the following : * 100 ppl voted Argentina #1 and Nigeria #2 * 90 ppl voted Nigeria #1 only * none voted Argentina #1 or (Nigeria #1 and Argentina #2) Nigeria = 90*2+50*1 = 230 points Argentina = 100*2 = 200 points => Nigeria wins ! So yes, explaining how the results are calculated matters. And mirko explained, I'm fine with any option, as long as it's clearly stated. And it is. -- Paul POULAIN - Associé-gérant Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08 http://www.biblibre.com Logiciels Libres pour les bibliothèques et les centres de documentation
Hi, On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com>wrote:
well, last year way of calculating could result in the following : * 100 ppl voted Argentina #1 and Nigeria #2 * 90 ppl voted Nigeria #1 only * none voted Argentina #1 or (Nigeria #1 and Argentina #2)
Nigeria = 90*2+50*1 = 230 points Argentina = 100*2 = 200 points => Nigeria wins !
So yes, explaining how the results are calculated matters. And mirko explained, I'm fine with any option, as long as it's clearly stated. And it is.
Thanks for clarifying. And I think that this example makes it clear that this particular voting scheme should never be used again for conference selection, as I can't see how such an outcome could possibly be justified absent an explicit "none of the above" option. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
Le 24/09/2013 18:44, Galen Charlton a écrit :
Thanks for clarifying. And I think that this example makes it clear that this particular voting scheme should never be used again for conference selection, as I can't see how such an outcome could possibly be justified absent an explicit "none of the above" option.
I really liked last year way of voting. Let's suppose you're 4 options: one in EU, one in america, one in north africa (tunisia), one in NZ. Someone from France, could be happy to vote: * #1 EU, 4 points (very cheap !) * #2 Tunisia, 3 points (cheap) * no other options, because I would really like to got to the conference, and would not be able to pay NZ or america. But of course, that makes much more sense with more than 2 options. That we don't have this year. -- Paul POULAIN - Associé-gérant Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08 http://www.biblibre.com Logiciels Libres pour les bibliothèques et les centres de documentation
Hi, On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:53 AM, Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com>wrote:
Le 24/09/2013 18:44, Galen Charlton a écrit :
Thanks for clarifying. And I think that this example makes it clear that this particular voting scheme should never be used again for conference selection, as I can't see how such an outcome could possibly be justified absent an explicit "none of the above" option.
I really liked last year way of voting. Let's suppose you're 4 options: one in EU, one in america, one in north africa (tunisia), one in NZ. Someone from France, could be happy to vote: * #1 EU, 4 points (very cheap !) * #2 Tunisia, 3 points (cheap) * no other options, because I would really like to got to the conference, and would not be able to pay NZ or america.
But of course, that makes much more sense with more than 2 options. That we don't have this year.
I think an ordinary preferential voting system (perhaps similar to the process that the World Science Fiction Society uses for WorldCon) that includes "no preference" as an option would be better, as it avoids the possibility that a majority of voters pick site A as their first preference, but get overridden by an organized minority. Under that approach, if one can got to the EU or Tunisia, but nowhere else, one could vote: 1. EU 2. Tunisia 3. No preference / none of the above If "no preference" were to win in a given year, that's probably a signal to consider doing two smaller regional KohaCons that year. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
On 09/24/13 17:44, Galen Charlton wrote:
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Paul Poulain <paul.poulain@biblibre.com>wrote:
well, last year way of calculating could result in the following : * 100 ppl voted Argentina #1 and Nigeria #2 * 90 ppl voted Nigeria #1 only * none voted Argentina #1 or (Nigeria #1 and Argentina #2)
Nigeria = 90*2+50*1 = 230 points Argentina = 100*2 = 200 points => Nigeria wins ! [...]
Thanks for clarifying. And I think that this example makes it clear that this particular voting scheme should never be used again for conference selection, as I can't see how such an outcome could possibly be justified absent an explicit "none of the above" option.
Actually, I think the example makes the opposite clear. Look at the possible outcomes: If Argentina wins, 100 people go to the conference. If Nigeria wins, 190 people go to the conference. So it seems like Nigeria should win, doesn't it? I'm pretty sure that voting system was adopted in order to maximise the number of people who get the opportunity of attending a kohacon. I think there used to be an instruction not to rank venues there was no chance you would attend. Of course, it's not perfect and there may be better ways, but that's my understanding of what the points-based voting system was trying to do. Hope that explains, -- MJ Ray (slef), member of www.software.coop, a for-more-than-profit co-op http://koha-community.org supporter, web and library systems developer. In My Opinion Only: see http://mjr.towers.org.uk/email.html Available for hire (including development) at http://www.software.coop/
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:47 AM, MJ Ray <mjr@phonecoop.coop> wrote:
Actually, I think the example makes the opposite clear. Look at the possible outcomes:
If Argentina wins, 100 people go to the conference.
If Nigeria wins, 190 people go to the conference.
So it seems like Nigeria should win, doesn't it?
I'm pretty sure that voting system was adopted in order to maximise the number of people who get the opportunity of attending a kohacon. I think there used to be an instruction not to rank venues there was no chance you would attend.
Of course, it's not perfect and there may be better ways, but that's my understanding of what the points-based voting system was trying to do.
Hope that explains,
MJ is exactly right, that is why I did the survey the way I did in past years. Nicole
participants (7)
-
Galen Charlton -
Mirko -
MJ Ray -
Nicole Engard -
Olugbenga Adara -
Paul Poulain -
Tomas Cohen Arazi