Open source replacement for 3M self check station
Hi, Since 2009, we have a 3M RFID self check in our library and it is well integrated with Koha (3.8). But... Some time ago, an automatic update of Windows made the self check station unavailable. We don't have any backup or install cd (3M refused to give it). The warrantee period is over and 3M asks a high charge to repair it (more than 2000 euros, that is bigger than a computer and the usual devices of a self check). As we 're going to upgrade our Koha installation to 3.12, we want to use an open source system to replace the software of the self check. Does anyone has some experience for an easy-to-install free software with that hardware ? Sincerely, -- Daniel Berthereau
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout. I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse. Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing. Greg -- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 ------------------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 10:35 AM, Daniel Berthereau wrote:
Hi,
Since 2009, we have a 3M RFID self check in our library and it is well integrated with Koha (3.8). But...
Some time ago, an automatic update of Windows made the self check station unavailable. We don't have any backup or install cd (3M refused to give it). The warrantee period is over and 3M asks a high charge to repair it (more than 2000 euros, that is bigger than a computer and the usual devices of a self check).
As we 're going to upgrade our Koha installation to 3.12, we want to use an open source system to replace the software of the self check.
Does anyone has some experience for an easy-to-install free software with that hardware ?
Sincerely,
Hi, On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:45 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Would it be an accurate statement that the primary distinctive issues (as opposed to the usual issues with setting up a kiosk computer) that an open-hardware self-checkout machine would be need to deal with are: - interacting with whatever device desensitizes security strips? - interacting with RFID pads? Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
At it's simplest, I think the main issues would be: 1. a lock-down mode (kiosk) so that users could not access anything other than the checkout software 2. a barcode reader that provides input to whatever software is being used to connect to the Koha database -- I am not terribly familiar with the self-check functionality mentioned by Ryan Sipes in this thread, but if that works then (1) and (2) may be all that's needed, if RFID is not being used 3. It's possible something like this RFID programmer (http://tinyurl.com/o4dygcz) would work as a reader/writer. I honestly don't know what the standards are that are mentioned in the ad (ISO/IEC 14443 A and B). There are a number of these things on eBay, I just happened to pick the first one that seemed applicable. When/if we get to this for real we'll figure it all out. One of the things we really work at here at our library is reducing the footprint of our computer hardware, especially for systems used by the public, like a self-checkout would be. We've played with the Raspberry Pi (and Cubieboard) some, and generally feel it doesn't have enough firepower to be a satisfactory web browser, out-of-the-box anyway. A computer we do use more, clearly a couple of steps up from the Pi, is the Zotac. It has enough gas in the engine (sorry for the Americanism, I mean "power") for nearly everything we use it for, but we've also had some flake issues with HDMI output, so we're still cautious, but mostly we're happy with it. http://www.zotacusa.com/zbox-ad06-plus.html This computer has the advantage of having a "good-enough" CPU, RAM and hard drive, and there is no OS installed so there is no "penalty" for a pre-installed system that we need to just wipe out. Greg ------------------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 12:31 PM, Galen Charlton wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:45 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>> wrote:
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Would it be an accurate statement that the primary distinctive issues (as opposed to the usual issues with setting up a kiosk computer) that an open-hardware self-checkout machine would be need to deal with are:
- interacting with whatever device desensitizes security strips? - interacting with RFID pads?
Regards,
Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com <mailto:gmc@esilibrary.com> direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
I can confirm that the first two are pretty easy to implement with Koha and pure open source. We also use Elo touchscreens with ours. Any computer with enough juice to cough up a web browser should suffice. You will be able to better/easily tweak the interface to better suit touchscreens in Koha 3.12 ...we currently use tampermonkey for this, but when we move to 3.12 we'll be able to streamline things. A barrier to Koha selfcheck implementation would [ might ] be if you needed non-generic equipment like security strip readers, RFID equipment like Galen mentioned. The basic touchscreen kiosk with scanner and even receipt printer is very doable with Koha currently. Chad On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 8:58 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
At it's simplest, I think the main issues would be:
1. a lock-down mode (kiosk) so that users could not access anything other than the checkout software
2. a barcode reader that provides input to whatever software is being used to connect to the Koha database -- I am not terribly familiar with the self-check functionality mentioned by Ryan Sipes in this thread, but if that works then (1) and (2) may be all that's needed, if RFID is not being used
3. It's possible something like this RFID programmer (http://tinyurl.com/o4dygcz) would work as a reader/writer. I honestly don't know what the standards are that are mentioned in the ad (ISO/IEC 14443 A and B). There are a number of these things on eBay, I just happened to pick the first one that seemed applicable. When/if we get to this for real we'll figure it all out.
One of the things we really work at here at our library is reducing the footprint of our computer hardware, especially for systems used by the public, like a self-checkout would be. We've played with the Raspberry Pi (and Cubieboard) some, and generally feel it doesn't have enough firepower to be a satisfactory web browser, out-of-the-box anyway. A computer we do use more, clearly a couple of steps up from the Pi, is the Zotac. It has enough gas in the engine (sorry for the Americanism, I mean "power") for nearly everything we use it for, but we've also had some flake issues with HDMI output, so we're still cautious, but mostly we're happy with it.
http://www.zotacusa.com/zbox-ad06-plus.html
This computer has the advantage of having a "good-enough" CPU, RAM and hard drive, and there is no OS installed so there is no "penalty" for a pre-installed system that we need to just wipe out.
Greg -------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 12:31 PM, Galen Charlton wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:45 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>> wrote:
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Would it be an accurate statement that the primary distinctive issues (as opposed to the usual issues with setting up a kiosk computer) that an open-hardware self-checkout machine would be need to deal with are:
- interacting with whatever device desensitizes security strips? - interacting with RFID pads?
Regards,
Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com <mailto:gmc@esilibrary.com> direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
We use Koha selfchecks with generic touchscreens and scanners. Not too difficult to set up. We used Debian with Chrome in Kiosk mode. Later ... We had some 3M selfchecks that we tried to convert using the same strategy but drivers for the hardware were a barrier. If someone has had success with the security strip reader or any of the 3M equipment we'd also be interested in hearing about it. Chad On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Galen Charlton <gmc@esilibrary.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:45 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Would it be an accurate statement that the primary distinctive issues (as opposed to the usual issues with setting up a kiosk computer) that an open-hardware self-checkout machine would be need to deal with are:
- interacting with whatever device desensitizes security strips? - interacting with RFID pads?
Regards,
Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
I would expand on Galen's second item when it comes to RFID. RFID pads also have to handle the security settings on the item. In other words, communcation is two ways. Unlike a barcode that just conveys data, an RFID pad has to make changes to the RFID tag to indicate that the item should be allowed to exit the library without alarming the RFID-enabled security gates (and without setting off the security gates at Target). How security is handled and what RFID data models and encoding methods are used in libraries is defined by ISO 28560-2 (for the US, UK, and Australia). It is in a library's interest to have Koha develop around existing standards as much as possible so that their non-ILS equipment continues to be interoperable even if they left Koha or if/when they switch from one third party vendor to another (e.g. for RFID-enabled equipment). I think it would be great for the Koha community to develop an RFID interface for Koha. And if anyone was interested in that, I would urge you to look into the work done by BIC (in the UK) with the Library Communication Framework (LCF). The LCF establishes a message set and data elements needed in a library RFID environment (and a procedure for developing more as new needs are defined). Very importantly, they are building upon existing protocols (e.g. SIP) so that makers of RFID equipment and ILS vendors don't all have to create custom interfaces everytime they want to do something. I hope the Koha community will build on these standards so that the libraries using Koha continue to keep all their options open for using products from a range of vendors and not getting locked into one vendor's/developer's solution. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Lori Bowen Ayre // Library Technology Consultant / The Galecia Group (707) 763-6869 // Lori.Ayre@galecia.com Availability: http://doodle.com/loriayre <Lori.Ayre@galecia.com>Specializing in software solutions, RFID, filtering, workflow optimization, and materials handling =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 9:31 AM, Galen Charlton <gmc@esilibrary.com> wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 7:45 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Would it be an accurate statement that the primary distinctive issues (as opposed to the usual issues with setting up a kiosk computer) that an open-hardware self-checkout machine would be need to deal with are:
- interacting with whatever device desensitizes security strips? - interacting with RFID pads?
Regards,
Galen -- Galen Charlton Manager of Implementation Equinox Software, Inc. / The Open Source Experts email: gmc@esilibrary.com direct: +1 770-709-5581 cell: +1 404-984-4366 skype: gmcharlt web: http://www.esilibrary.com/ Supporting Koha and Evergreen: http://koha-community.org & http://evergreen-ils.org _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get. Greg --------------------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote:
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout.
I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse.
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Greg
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently. It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some post-install drivers. We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet. Chad On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote:
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout.
I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse.
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Greg
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
I would certainly be interested in giving it a test run if you could post it somewhere. Greg ------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 02:59 PM, Chad Roseburg wrote:
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some post-install drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote: > I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout > system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work > with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, > and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would > like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already > discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already > has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's > playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout. > > I should note probably that all the development we support is for open > operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses > Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more > generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse. > > Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do > won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a > good discussion topic and worth continuing. > > Greg > >
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303> _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
Hi, do You know this articles? http://blog.rot13.org//2008/10/3m-rfid-reader-810-can-freely-speak-now.html http://blog.rot13.org//2009/04/comet-experiment-rfid-reader-with-koha-data-i... And this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byd-NqGOZXc This guy did make some open source support for some 3M RFID reader and tested this solution with Koha. Code is here: https://github.com/dpavlin/Biblio-RFID I think about low cost RFID solution based on open source hardware. RFID readers (and writers) are now cheap on Ebay or in China. Some of them are supported in Linux too. Maybe we can make group of people (libraries) and start some research. Anybody interested? Mike 2013/9/25 glaws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I would certainly be interested in giving it a test run if you could post it somewhere.
Greg ------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 02:59 PM, Chad Roseburg wrote:
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some post-install drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote: > I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout > system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work > with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, > and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would > like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already > discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already > has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's > playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout. > > I should note probably that all the development we support is for open > operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses > Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more > generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse. > > Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do > won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a > good discussion topic and worth continuing. > > Greg > >
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303> _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
We don't plan on implementing RFID but I'd be interested in helping out with drop-in 3M replacements for Koha. We use to use the magnetic strip readers and that would be an interesting addition to a selfcheck. As I mentioned before, we do have touchscreen Koha selfchecks deployed and have done some of the legwork as far as the basics: * Touchscreen * Scanner * Receipts * Reproducible - image / iso * Open source only * Works with off the shelf hardware [ tested with Epson and Star printers and Elo touchscreens ] * Works with Koha 3.10 * Helped fund some selfcheck features in koha Our documentation needs some cleanup but I think it'd be decipherable to someone familiar with Linux basics and some basic jQuery/CSS knowledge. If this would be helpful we'd more than happy to forward on our experiences with this. I'll be updating the kiosks for Koha 3.12 in the next few weeks before we upgrade. I'll be able to simplify the kiosks and tear out some hacks thanks to some new selfcheck features in 3.12. But I must say we've been pleased with the kiosks over the past 18 months or so we've had them "in the wild". Chad On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:50 PM, Mike D. <black23@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi, do You know this articles? http://blog.rot13.org//2008/10/3m-rfid-reader-810-can-freely-speak-now.html
http://blog.rot13.org//2009/04/comet-experiment-rfid-reader-with-koha-data-i... And this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byd-NqGOZXc This guy did make some open source support for some 3M RFID reader and tested this solution with Koha. Code is here: https://github.com/dpavlin/Biblio-RFID
I think about low cost RFID solution based on open source hardware. RFID readers (and writers) are now cheap on Ebay or in China. Some of them are supported in Linux too. Maybe we can make group of people (libraries) and start some research. Anybody interested?
Mike
2013/9/25 glaws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I would certainly be interested in giving it a test run if you could post it somewhere.
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some post-install drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a
Greg ------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 02:59 PM, Chad Roseburg wrote: pre-configured
"Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize
their
exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote: > I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout > system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work > with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, > and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would > like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having
already
> discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already > has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's > playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout. > > I should note probably that all the development we support is for open > operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses > Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more > generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse. > > Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do > won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a > good discussion topic and worth continuing. > > Greg > >
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303> _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
Hi, Sure, there are low chinese devices, but there are some cuts in budget too... so we prefer to keep our 3M hardware some years (to keep it is more ecological too). But of course, for next selfchecks, we won't use proprietary software and hardware anymore. I see this project, but the documentation is not clear for me, so if somebody can confirm that this software works on 3M devices, I can make more efforts to understand how it can be installed with Koha. And I don't know if it is compliant with Koha 3.12. Sincerely, Daniel Berthereau On 25/09/2013 21:50, Mike D. wrote:
Hi, do You know this articles? http://blog.rot13.org//2008/10/3m-rfid-reader-810-can-freely-speak-now.html http://blog.rot13.org//2009/04/comet-experiment-rfid-reader-with-koha-data-i... And this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byd-NqGOZXc This guy did make some open source support for some 3M RFID reader and tested this solution with Koha. Code is here: https://github.com/dpavlin/Biblio-RFID
I think about low cost RFID solution based on open source hardware. RFID readers (and writers) are now cheap on Ebay or in China. Some of them are supported in Linux too. Maybe we can make group of people (libraries) and start some research. Anybody interested?
Mike
2013/9/25 glaws <glawson@rhcl.org>
I would certainly be interested in giving it a test run if you could post it somewhere.
Greg ------------------------------- On 09/25/2013 02:59 PM, Chad Roseburg wrote:
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some post-install drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org <mailto:glawson@rhcl.org>> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote: > I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout > system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work > with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, > and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would > like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already > discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already > has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's > playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout. > > I should note probably that all the development we support is for open > operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses > Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more > generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse. > > Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do > won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a > good discussion topic and worth continuing. > > Greg > >
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 <tel:816-232-5479%20x2303> _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz <mailto:Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz> http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Hi, On our selfcheck kiosk, all devices (rfid, printer, scanner, tactile screen) work well on Windows, the problem is the 3M software. I don't try if they work on Debian, but I can check if your Iso runs. Sincerely, Daniel Berthereau On 25/09/2013 20:59, Chad Roseburg wrote:
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some post-install drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote:
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout.
I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse.
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Greg
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
A colleague of mine tried to get our selfcheck iso installed on our 3M equipment without success. You should be able to install it fine on the computer tower but it's the peripheral components like the 3M scanner, touchscreen and readers that are the issue. To be honest I don't remember where we left off with that other than we abandoned it due to some component not working properly. I will email him and ask what worked and what didn't. Chad On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Daniel Berthereau < Daniel.koha@berthereau.net> wrote:
Hi,
On our selfcheck kiosk, all devices (rfid, printer, scanner, tactile screen) work well on Windows, the problem is the 3M software. I don't try if they work on Debian, but I can check if your Iso runs.
Sincerely,
Daniel Berthereau
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some
On 25/09/2013 20:59, Chad Roseburg wrote: post-install
drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote:
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout.
I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse.
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Greg
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
I wonder... Is this discussion mixing up two different things a bit? For me, "self check" in relation to Koha can mean (at least) two different things: 1. A self check "station" that runs dedicated software, and that communicates with Koha via SIP2 2. Some computer running a browser, possible locked down to "kiosk mode" and possibly with a touch screen, that is set to display the "self check web interface" of Koha, as described here: http://manual.koha-community.org/3.12/en/selfcheckout.html Or is everyone just talking about one of those? Best regards, Magnus Enger libriotech.no On 25 September 2013 22:52, Chad Roseburg <croseburg@ncrl.org> wrote:
A colleague of mine tried to get our selfcheck iso installed on our 3M equipment without success. You should be able to install it fine on the computer tower but it's the peripheral components like the 3M scanner, touchscreen and readers that are the issue. To be honest I don't remember where we left off with that other than we abandoned it due to some component not working properly. I will email him and ask what worked and what didn't.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Daniel Berthereau < Daniel.koha@berthereau.net> wrote:
Hi,
On our selfcheck kiosk, all devices (rfid, printer, scanner, tactile screen) work well on Windows, the problem is the 3M software. I don't try if they work on Debian, but I can check if your Iso runs.
Sincerely,
Daniel Berthereau
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some
On 25/09/2013 20:59, Chad Roseburg wrote: post-install
drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote:
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout.
I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse.
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Greg
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Magnus ~ As to "mixing up two different things a bit" ...yes and no: The original poster wanted an open source software solution that worked with the 3M equipment [ #1 in your list ] to reanimate a glitchy 3M station and protect the not insubstantial $$ investment [ system restore would've helped here perhaps, or uninstalling the guilty Windows updates? Don't know. ]. So the problem is keeping the [ now glitchy ] 3M hardware/equipment investment up and going. He says: As we 're going to upgrade our Koha installation to 3.12, we want to use
an open source system to replace the software of the self check. Does anyone has some experience for an easy-to-install free software with that hardware ?
In theory, you could turn the 3M station/equipment into a browser based kiosk using the Koha self-check module [ #2 in your list ] ...it's just a computer with Windows, touchscreen and scanner in some special furniture anyway. We *did* try re-purposing our old 3M equipment using FOSS, mostly for kicks ~ and failed. Mainly due to driver issues between things like the 3M touchscreen and the OS. Could be avoided *possibly* if you stuck with the existing OS on the equipment. You'd still have issues with software needing to talk to the security strip "desensitizer". It may be possible, for instance, to install FOSS kiosk software or browser plugins and continue to use the 3M kiosks, as they just run Windows XP behind the scenes ...if you didn't care about the security strips, that is. We opted to just replace them with generic off-the-shelf components instead as our 3M equipment was a bit long in the tooth and ready for retirement anyway. An ideal solution, for this poster, would retain *all* functionality of the original 3M kiosk [ RFID, security strips ], use the existing equipment ...and run on FOSS partially or entirely. Easy installation a plus. I can only share our experiences and wish him luck. Chad On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Magnus Enger <magnus@enger.priv.no> wrote:
I wonder... Is this discussion mixing up two different things a bit?
For me, "self check" in relation to Koha can mean (at least) two different things:
1. A self check "station" that runs dedicated software, and that communicates with Koha via SIP2
2. Some computer running a browser, possible locked down to "kiosk mode" and possibly with a touch screen, that is set to display the "self check web interface" of Koha, as described here: http://manual.koha-community.org/3.12/en/selfcheckout.html
Or is everyone just talking about one of those?
Best regards, Magnus Enger libriotech.no
On 25 September 2013 22:52, Chad Roseburg <croseburg@ncrl.org> wrote:
A colleague of mine tried to get our selfcheck iso installed on our 3M equipment without success. You should be able to install it fine on the computer tower but it's the peripheral components like the 3M scanner, touchscreen and readers that are the issue. To be honest I don't remember where we left off with that other than we abandoned it due to some component not working properly. I will email him and ask what worked and what didn't.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 1:11 PM, Daniel Berthereau < Daniel.koha@berthereau.net> wrote:
Hi,
On our selfcheck kiosk, all devices (rfid, printer, scanner, tactile screen) work well on Windows, the problem is the 3M software. I don't try if they work on Debian, but I can check if your Iso runs.
Sincerely,
Daniel Berthereau
I use remastersys, much like the Live Koha DVD to deploy and image selfchecks. I could make this available as a downloadable iso if anyone was interested trying it out. It would require some site specific changes of course. I have quite a bit of documentation for it, but it is missing a beginner's setup guide for making the site specific changes currently.
It is designed for touchscreens and receipt printing out of the box using Epson T88IV or T88V printers. A Star TSP would work with some
On 25/09/2013 20:59, Chad Roseburg wrote: post-install
drivers.
We have 2 in our branches that do over 1300 and 2300 transactions each month. I have not updated them for Wheezy yet.
Chad
On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM, glaws <glawson@rhcl.org> wrote:
We do also try to remember that not everybody can do a configure, make, make install, to install software. Some small libraries without tech support staff simply would be unable to use some software if it weren't on a CD or easily downloadable. For these sites I think it makes good sense to just master a Linux .iso that can be installed and "just work". If library staff have to install Linux anyway, then a pre-configured "Library Kiosk" or "Self-checkout" distro is probably simpler than creating packages, again, for those users who need to minimize their exposure to synaptic or apt-get.
Greg ---------------------------------------------
On 09/25/2013 10:45 AM, glaws wrote:
I'm not aware there currently exists an open source self-checkout system, however we've long talked about it here at our library. I work with a developer, Aaron Ogle, that is currently building a PAC system, and when he is finished with that if we have the funds available I would like to consider funding a self-checkout development. Having already discussed it, we think it wouldn't be terribly difficult. Aaron already has a generalized framework for similar systems (a children's playstation and a Koha kiosk) that could be easily adapted to a checkout.
I should note probably that all the development we support is for open operating systems, and all the funding we've done so far generally uses Linux Mint at the client end. The server side, where utilized, is more generalized, but we typically use Ubuntu and OpenSuse.
Unfortunately it seems that you need a system now, and anything we do won't be worked on until at least mid- late-2014. This is, however, a good discussion topic and worth continuing.
Greg
-- Greg Lawson Network Administrator Rolling Hills Consolidated Library 1912 N. Belt Highway St. Joseph, MO 64506 816-232-5479 x2303 _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
_______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library _______________________________________________ Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
Koha mailing list http://koha-community.org Koha@lists.katipo.co.nz http://lists.katipo.co.nz/mailman/listinfo/koha
-- Chad Roseburg Automation Dept. North Central Regional Library
Or check out the built-in self check functionality. Ryan Sipes Systems Administrator Northeast Kansas Library System 785-838-4090 4317 W. 6th St. Lawrence, KS 66049 On Sep 25, 2013 9:43 AM, "Daniel Berthereau" <Daniel.koha@berthereau.net> wrote:
Hi,
Since 2009, we have a 3M RFID self check in our library and it is well integrated with Koha (3.8). But...
Some time ago, an automatic update of Windows made the self check station unavailable. We don't have any backup or install cd (3M refused to give it). The warrantee period is over and 3M asks a high charge to repair it (more than 2000 euros, that is bigger than a computer and the usual devices of a self check).
As we 're going to upgrade our Koha installation to 3.12, we want to use an open source system to replace the software of the self check.
Does anyone has some experience for an easy-to-install free software with that hardware ?
Sincerely,
-- Daniel Berthereau
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participants (8)
-
Chad Roseburg -
Daniel Berthereau -
Galen Charlton -
glaws -
Lori Bowen Ayre -
Magnus Enger -
Mike D. -
Ryan Sipes