Authorities difficulties
Hi all, I would like to ask two questions on cataloguing with authorities. 1. The first one regards the MergeAuthoritiesOnUpdate function. I have a Personal Name Authority (for ex. "Givord, Robert"), and I use it in bibliogr. records in 700 field (always MARC21), once as translator (700$e - relator term - "tr."), once as author of foreword (700$e:"pref.") etc. When I change the name in Authorities (for example because I add a date of the death, or there is a mistake in the name) and I have the MergeAuthoritiesOnUpdate preferrence ON, it deletes all the relator terms in the bibliogr. records. Is there any way how to update bibliogr. records without deleting the contents of all the 700$e subfields? Obviously, I could have a special authority for Robert Givord as translator, another one for R.G. as author of the foreword etc., but this doesn't seem to me to be a good solution. 2. The second question regards cataloging bibl. records. I want to catalogue a book with a name of a translator. So I choose the name from authorities and I want to add 700$e subfield. For this, I need to add a comma at the end of previous subfield, so as to have, for ex. 700 1# $aGivord, Robert[comma]$etr. But the MARC editor doesn't allow any change in 700$a subfield. I could turn the *BiblioAddsAuthorities preference ON*, so as to allow the input in 700$a field, but this would create automatically one authority for the person as a translator, another one as an author of a foreword etc. Would anyone know how to resolve these problems? Thank you very much Ondrej Mlecka Rome
2009/7/24 Ondrej Mlecka <omlecka@gmail.com>
Hi all,
I would like to ask two questions on cataloguing with authorities.
1. The first one regards the MergeAuthoritiesOnUpdate function. I have a Personal Name Authority (for ex. "Givord, Robert"), and I use it in bibliogr. records in 700 field (always MARC21), once as translator (700$e - relator term - "tr."), once as author of foreword (700$e:"pref.") etc. When I change the name in Authorities (for example because I add a date of the death, or there is a mistake in the name) and I have the MergeAuthoritiesOnUpdate preferrence ON, it deletes all the relator terms in the bibliogr. records. Is there any way how to update bibliogr. records without deleting the contents of all the 700$e subfields? Obviously, I could have a special authority for Robert Givord as translator, another one for R.G. as author of the foreword etc., but this doesn't seem to me to be a good solution.
2. The second question regards cataloging bibl. records. I want to catalogue a book with a name of a translator. So I choose the name from authorities and I want to add 700$e subfield. For this, I need to add a comma at the end of previous subfield, so as to have, for ex. 700 1# $aGivord, Robert[comma]$etr. But the MARC editor doesn't allow any change in 700$a subfield. I could turn the *BiblioAddsAuthorities preference ON*, so as to allow the input in 700$a field, but this would create automatically one authority for the person as a translator, another one as an author of a foreword etc.
For #2, I'm not a cataloger, but I think you should add as little punctuation as possible. If the display of the subfields together is unattractive, then that is a display problem, not something to fix by changing data that was correct before, just to help it look nicer up next to a separate subfield. Also, I think *BiblioAddsAuthorities would add a duplicate entry, with the new one having a comma. That seems pretty clearly to be the wrong approach. * -- Joe Atzberger LibLime - Open Source Library Solutions
Joe, The problem is that the cataloging rules state that we should put a comma there ... that's probably what's causing a problem - the annoying rules ;) --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ 2009/7/24 Joe Atzberger <ohiocore@gmail.com>:
2009/7/24 Ondrej Mlecka <omlecka@gmail.com>
Hi all,
I would like to ask two questions on cataloguing with authorities.
1. The first one regards the MergeAuthoritiesOnUpdate function. I have a Personal Name Authority (for ex. "Givord, Robert"), and I use it in bibliogr. records in 700 field (always MARC21), once as translator (700$e - relator term - "tr."), once as author of foreword (700$e:"pref.") etc. When I change the name in Authorities (for example because I add a date of the death, or there is a mistake in the name) and I have the MergeAuthoritiesOnUpdate preferrence ON, it deletes all the relator terms in the bibliogr. records. Is there any way how to update bibliogr. records without deleting the contents of all the 700$e subfields? Obviously, I could have a special authority for Robert Givord as translator, another one for R.G. as author of the foreword etc., but this doesn't seem to me to be a good solution.
2. The second question regards cataloging bibl. records. I want to catalogue a book with a name of a translator. So I choose the name from authorities and I want to add 700$e subfield. For this, I need to add a comma at the end of previous subfield, so as to have, for ex. 700 1# $aGivord, Robert[comma]$etr. But the MARC editor doesn't allow any change in 700$a subfield. I could turn the BiblioAddsAuthorities preference ON, so as to allow the input in 700$a field, but this would create automatically one authority for the person as a translator, another one as an author of a foreword etc.
For #2, I'm not a cataloger, but I think you should add as little punctuation as possible. If the display of the subfields together is unattractive, then that is a display problem, not something to fix by changing data that was correct before, just to help it look nicer up next to a separate subfield. Also, I think BiblioAddsAuthorities would add a duplicate entry, with the new one having a comma. That seems pretty clearly to be the wrong approach.
-- Joe Atzberger LibLime - Open Source Library Solutions
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On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com>wrote:
The problem is that the cataloging rules state that we should put a comma there ... that's probably what's causing a problem - the annoying rules ;)
That's why I'm not a cataloger. These rules are for the systems that existed *before databases*. Would be nice if they could catch up to, say, 1975.
I'm with you 100% :) I used to drive my cataloging instructors crazy cause I kept complaining about the stupidity of the punctuation rules. --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Joe Atzberger<ohiocore@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:03 AM, Nicole Engard <nicole.engard@liblime.com> wrote:
The problem is that the cataloging rules state that we should put a comma there ... that's probably what's causing a problem - the annoying rules ;)
That's why I'm not a cataloger. These rules are for the systems that existed *before databases*. Would be nice if they could catch up to, say, 1975.
Nicole Engard a écrit :
I'm with you 100% :) I used to drive my cataloging instructors crazy cause I kept complaining about the stupidity of the punctuation rules.
you can add my 100% too... -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
On 07/24/2009 02:26 PM, Nicole Engard wrote:
I'm with you 100% :) I used to drive my cataloging instructors crazy cause I kept complaining about the stupidity of the punctuation rules.
UK Marc had no punctuation. e.g. names were entered $aSurname$hFirst names instead of $aSurname, First names. Then a few years back the UK libraries adopted Marc21 and a lot of programmer time (I speak from experience) went into putting back all those #!?@ commas, periods dashes etc. History does not always go onward and upward, I fear Colin -- Colin Campbell Software Engineer, PTFS Europe Limited Content Management and Library Solutions +44 (0) 208 366 1295 (phone) +44 (0) 7759 633626 (mobile) colin.campbell@ptfs-europe.com skype: colin_campbell2 http://www.ptfs-europe.com
Colin - the UK way sounds awesome :) hehe I have to admit I haven't kept up with RDA - does anyone know if some of the punctuation rules are removed? --- Nicole C. Engard Open Source Evangelist, LibLime (888) Koha ILS (564-2457) ext. 714 nce@liblime.com AIM/Y!/Skype: nengard http://liblime.com http://blogs.liblime.com/open-sesame/ On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Colin Campbell<colin.campbell@ptfs-europe.com> wrote:
On 07/24/2009 02:26 PM, Nicole Engard wrote:
I'm with you 100% :) I used to drive my cataloging instructors crazy cause I kept complaining about the stupidity of the punctuation rules.
UK Marc had no punctuation. e.g. names were entered $aSurname$hFirst names instead of $aSurname, First names. Then a few years back the UK libraries adopted Marc21 and a lot of programmer time (I speak from experience) went into putting back all those #!?@ commas, periods dashes etc. History does not always go onward and upward, I fear
Colin
-- Colin Campbell Software Engineer, PTFS Europe Limited Content Management and Library Solutions +44 (0) 208 366 1295 (phone) +44 (0) 7759 633626 (mobile) colin.campbell@ptfs-europe.com skype: colin_campbell2
Hi, On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Colin Campbell<colin.campbell@ptfs-europe.com> wrote:
On 07/24/2009 02:26 PM, Nicole Engard wrote:
I'm with you 100% :) I used to drive my cataloging instructors crazy cause I kept complaining about the stupidity of the punctuation rules.
UK Marc had no punctuation. e.g. names were entered $aSurname$hFirst names instead of $aSurname, First names. Then a few years back the UK libraries adopted Marc21 and a lot of programmer time (I speak from experience) went into putting back all those #!?@ commas, periods dashes etc.
I did the same punctuation-adding back in the day. While I think it is a good thing that the number of national MARC content standards got whittled down as USMARC absorbed UKMARC and CANMARC, it would have been much matter if MARC21 had adopted more of the good ideas from the other variants. Regards, Galen -- Galen Charlton VP, Research & Development, LibLime galen.charlton@liblime.com p: 1-888-564-2457 x709 skype: gmcharlt
Perhaps the punctuation should be built into the display rather than relying on punctuation in the fields. I'm not sure how difficult this feature would be to implement though. Lenora Lenora A. Oftedahl StreamNet Regional Librarian Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Commission http://www.fishlib.org
Lenora Oftedahl a écrit :
Perhaps the punctuation should be built into the display rather than relying on punctuation in the fields. I'm not sure how difficult this feature would be to implement though.
on the authority module = strictly no difficulty, it's already included (see summary field, you can set [250a -] and you'll get a - after the field 250a (only if 250a exists) in biblio display = stricly no difficulty, it's already included (with XSLT display) conclusion: die punctuation inside the record, die... -- Paul POULAIN http://www.biblibre.com Expert en Logiciels Libres pour l'info-doc Tel : (33) 4 91 81 35 08
participants (7)
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Colin Campbell -
Galen Charlton -
Joe Atzberger -
Lenora Oftedahl -
Nicole Engard -
Ondrej Mlecka -
paul POULAIN